Engine quit

[double ugly]

Here's a good one for you guys. While warming the car up last night to make sure the puller fan would work thermostatically the engine shut down as if the ignition was turned off. Trouble shooting revealed gas to carb, spark to plugs, distributor shaft was OK, and timing was dead on. Seems the only thing left to check or replace is the Pertronix ignition. Any thoughts? I have less than 45 minutes run time on the engine since install.
Thanks, John

[Brent Mills]

I had a pertronix die on me once. Strange though, that you would have spark to the plugs....Does it act like its misfiring or just completely dead? Seems like if you have spark to the plugs that it would at least misfire unless you have no fuel getting from the carb to the plugs.

How about a little starting fluid or a little bit of fuel poored down the carb...Does it kick over?

[Power Surge]

If you have spark to the plugs, that rules out any ignition related issues.

What is it doing (or not doing)? Does it turn over but not fire? Does it try to fire but not run?

[double ugly]

Doesn't even fart...... It's as if I pulled the coil wire. The coil is good, I know, because I bought another and no change but the spark from the plug to ground isn't maybe as great as should be. I was told a blue arc is good. Mine is an orange arc....

[ENTDOC]

fouled plugs

[double ugly]

Nope I think it has to do with the expansion tank. even fouled plugs won't just shut down the engine. There would at least be a sputter ot two. It was a clean shutdown
John

[xlr8or]

Air, fuel, spark and compression. If they are all there you should at least get some popping.

I'd guess fouled plugs or too much fuel.

[kris-kincaid]

Are you getting 12 volts to the coil?

[cosbytnkid]

John if I read your post right I thought I read where you were getting an orange spark at the plugs. If this is so then it is a bad coil. You should have a bluish white spark at the plugs. When I say bad coil read that as a weak coil. A good coil will give you the bluish white spark you need. And yes with that coil it will act as though you turned off the ignition key. Get another coil and see what kind of spark you get then. It should fire up with a replacement. I'm assuming timing is right, have good compression on all 8 cylinders, and is getting gas at the carb. If all is correct that engine has only one option and that is to run. Just my 2 cents worth here. Hope what I've written helps. I know this from experience with a '77 Olds Cutlass I had years ago. Exact same problem, replaced the coil and boom engine fired right up.

[RICK LAKE]

double ugly, check to see the rotor is spinning and that the rotor is on #1 cylinder in the cap and the timing marks are on TDC#1 cylinder. You may have broken the pin on the bottom of the distributor. I have seen some spin ( the rotors and others not spin. You get spark but timing is so far out you will not get and trying to start condition. The spark should be about 1" long. Blue spark is better bright orange is ok too. If you have a volt meter check for power to the coil. Are you running a ballast resistor on this current? When they go bad some cause no spark others have weak spark. Have had the winding in the ballast melt the wire winding and reconnect when the wire cools off. Car will start and run until wire gets hot on looses contact and car stops running. There must be a tech number to call for the pertronix to check out that the module is getting and sending signals. Check the powers and grounds first. You Have Fuel and Air, only thing left is a spark problem. Rick L. Ps most coils in the old days fire a blue spark, some of the oil filled coils fire blue. Most of the e-coils fire a bright orange. There is a tester you can get at the auto parts store for about $20.00 that all you have to do is plug in the one end to a plug wire and the other to ground. If you get spark, you need to look at other things. The spark has to jump a min of 1/2" for good spark. Spark should look like a welding strike. I would double check the pin in the bottom of the distributor, Pull it and try and spin the rotor without the bottom gear moving in your hand. Easy way is to see if you have oil pressure. Sorry just thought of this. Oil pressure, pins ok, no pressure, problem.

[double ugly]

I did get another coil and no change. But the plugs are probably fouled so will get on it tomorrow, hopefully. The rotor turns and the timing was double checked. Thanks for all the advice guys I'll let you know what we find.
John

[double ugly]

Well no answer yet. Pete took out the plugs (looked OK) and turned the engine over. No oil press. He then spun the dist. gear and had lots of press. Then turned it over with the starter and had press.
Next step in the Am is to try to start the car again.......
John

[fsiewert]

I had a pertronix unit go bad too. It would start sometimes and other times it wouldn't. Or it would not restart when shut off hot. Replaced the pertronix unit and its running still! I would get a spark when I turned the key on or when I turned it off.
Fred

[double ugly]

Doesn't the fact that turning the engine over resulted in no oil pressure but spinning the dist. gear gave it good pressure? I don't know how long Pete cranked it but it was at least 5 second, I'm sure.
John

[turnpike boy]

You say he spun the engine over and got no pressure.....but turning the distributor gear (by hand??) got pressure. Then spinning it over again gives pressure?

I'm assuming the dist. is still in the motor - if so, there's no way you should be able to spin the dist. EXCEPT by turning the whole motor over. If you can spin the dist with a drill, while mounted in the motor, you've got a sheared roll pin in the dist gear. You MIGHT be able to get a little pressure with a sheared pin, but it won't last as more load is applied to the gear as pump pressure builds.

And, of course, timing would be non-existant. Meaning, that dog won't hunt.

[LMH]

He's probably turning the dist gear at a higher rpm, which is giving it oil pressure. The starter turns the engine pretty slow.
Are you using some sort of external ignition module? It could be that the spark isn't "hot" enough to fire under compression.
Larry

[double ugly]

He used a drill to get the instant 100 lbs of pressure. The plugs were out and the starter should have given it plenty of RPM shouldn't it. I thought a method of pre-oiling was to pull the plugs and spin the engine until oil pressure is indicated. It has a Pertronics with a MSD Blaster coil.
Thanks, John

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by double ugly

He used a drill to get the instant 100 lbs of pressure. The plugs were out and the starter should have given it plenty of RPM shouldn't it. I thought a method of pre-oiling was to pull the plugs and spin the engine until oil pressure is indicated. It has a Pertronics with a MSD Blaster coil.
Thanks, John

Yes, on all accounts. Pre-lubing is done exactly that way - use a drill and spin the pump. The distributor, however, gets turned by the camshaft and - in turn - spins the pump. Cranking the motor is more than fast enough to build pressure; you might have to crank it for a hair longer than you would normally do, but you will see pressure build.

If the dist drive gear pin is busted, you're not gonna build pressure because as soon as the pump starts pumping, the effort required to move that oil will far exceed the level of friction the busted pin will generate between the dist shaft and the gear.

You HAVE popped the dist out to have an overall look at it, right?

[double ugly]

Pete is going to take a closer look with some help of friends. Thanks for the input.
John

[LMH]

On intial fire-up for a new engine, I would always use a drill to pre-oil the engine. After that, cranking the engine does give it enough oil pressure for start up. I wouldn't use the starter to give it oil pressure for a first time start up though.
As everyone has stated, the dist shaft shouldn't be able to turn if engaged with the cam. If it can, there's the problem but of course, you wouldn't have had any spark at the plugs either.
I'm really hoping you get the problems worked out before our annual get together in a couple weeks. (Dec. 1, I think) I can't wait to see this thing!
Larry