fe oil return question

[wrench87]

i finally brought my engine block to my machinist so i can have the block work done, he asked me if anyone uses bushings in the oil returns in the lifter valley to keep more of the oil in the bottom end?. i said i would ask on the forum i have never heard of this before?, any opinions.

[undy]

Maybe it's just me, if your machinist has to ask you what to do then maybe you need a shop that's familiar with FEs and all the idiosyncrasies of the FE.

btw... The only oil return mods I know of are in the heads. There's several things that can be done (in and around the oil filter housing mounting pad) to improve oil flow.

[Murphy]

I am in the process of restricting the oil to the top end on my motor. Far too much oil ends up there. It does not appear to be a big deal to do.

[blykins]

You can block the oil flow to the heads by using a restrictor on the deck of the block, since the heads don't get oil through the pushrods. Bushing the lifter valley would only reduce the amount of drain back. You want the oil to drain back as quickly as possible, so those returns need to be kept open and the drainback holes in the heads need to be open as well.

[RICK LAKE]

wrench87 If he is talking lifter valley breather tubes in the lifter valley, this would be a no, It doesn't matter which lifters you are using( solid, hydro, solid roller, hydro roller or Schubecks) That oil helps lube the cam to lifter contact point by splash. If you where drag racing only and looking for every last HP yes you add the oil restrictors to direct the oil to the front or back of the motor. Again this is more for SBC ONLY. These are not for street motors. Limiters in the heads for the rockers,yes I use them .080" oriface. Some guys run as low as .060". I run my motor with enought oil to have the valve springs submerged in oil. This controls the valve springs from overheating and loosing there tension strength on seat pressure. If your machinist doesn't know about FE MOTORS and there issues, GO SOME PLACE ELSE.Your motor is not a SBC. He may be your best friend, again thanks and leave the building. Check around this club and see how many have had problems from machinists not knowing what they are doing with an FE motor. Before you start this motor how about a complete spec on the motor from top to bottom, carb to oil pan, leave nothing out. There is a reason there is alot of oil in the top of the motor, It's for COOLING. Does this much need to be there, no. Alot depends on your rocker setup too. I run a full roller rocker but also have oiling going from the lifters through the pushrods to the contact point between the cup and ball at the adjuster. Right now 50% of us are saying to pickup your motor and leave. What does that say to you?Rick L. If you want to talk, call me in the evening est time. 732-254-3536. There is another guy on this forum with a motor and 500 miles on it and he has problems with very low oil perssure. He went to a good machinist. His machinist doesn't know the differents between Nascar rod bearings and standard 427 bearings. A 427 nascar crank is also crossed drilled and uses twice the amount of oil as a standard motor.

[Dwight]

take your Ford motor to someone who builds Ford motors!!!!!

Dwight

[Bobcat]

Definitely find someone who knows FE engines inside and out . I`m just guessing , but I believe Rick is dead on about restricting oil to the heads . My 427 in has .080" restrictors in the oil passages to the rockers ( carb jets drilled out ) . If your guy misses that , he might also miss putting the rocker stand bolts in the correct location .... or worse yet , using the wrong bolts . That`s how oil gets to the rockers ( assuming you are working with a 427 ) !

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

My 427 in has .080" restrictors in the oil passages to the rockers ( carb jets drilled out ) . !

.060's for me with my solid lifter cam. Absolutely positively find someone who knows FEs. There are too many little things that you can miss that can cause a disaster -- and even with people that know FEs there's plenty of debate as to how to put them together.

[wrench87]

the reason he was asking was he stated the hydraulic roller cams throw around a lot of oil seeing that the holes are rather large in the lifter valley alot of oil would be thrown into the valley by installing bushings it would keep the oil in the bottom end. i already have the .090 restrictors and the other oil mods done. this is something that has been done on different race engines.
i talk to different builders and they all have different opinions. gessford oils the top end through the pushrods like a smallblock so i dont know who to believe anymore. i know all builders do things differently and they love to take apart other builders engines to see what they doto learn there secerets.
the builder i am using does are circle track motors, we have back to back championships 06-07 with his engines he makes good power for reasonable money.

[RICK LAKE]

wrench87 You have a problem. Your machinist is a dirtrack motor builder. The modifications are ALOT differents between a circle track motor and FE. I don't know what class he is running be examples are, the motor is in the chassic at a tilt, the motor could be running a dry sump system, the motor could be using a vacuum pump, the motor is setup for right turns ONLY. Dove machine maybe the last guys running dirttrack with an FE motor. At one time they where very good. weight/ HP per lbs. is the key thing today unless you are spec motor racing. IMO .003" clearance on the rods and mains is way too big unless you are drag racing. I run an aluminium motor and run under .002" and .0022-23" on the other. You need 2 sets of bearing to get the right numbers. This is something that I only see Gessford machine do when they assembly motors. It's on there bill. A motor is a motor, this was the old days statement. This is no longer true. Chevy specs don't work in the FORD world. Go to the FE forumn and see if there is anybody within 200 miles from your house who knows FE motors and has references to call about his work on there motors. Try and find the not personal friends of his. Bottom line is we are trying to help you and not have another motor problem down the road after spending 2-5 grand for motor work that works better on a GM motor than a FE motor. You have asked alot of question over the last couple of months like I used to do years ago and still do. Just trying to give the best info possible to save you problems down the road. If you search FE talk, there are about 15 guys that have motor built, the problem they had, and where they ended up after a 20-30 grand bill. Some also learned that bigger isnot always better.

[55312]

Joe Lapine

Danbury Competition
13 Taylor St
Danbury, CT 06810
(203) 748-7356

3 hour drive and worth every minute.

Tim

[Dwight]

Amen to Rick Lane's comments



We have about 10 to 15 Cobras in my area. The number changes because of buying and selling. Several have had motors built by individuals or shops resulting in bad experiences. Bennett Racing, a nationally recognized speed shop sold my friend "all" the parts to build a 408 stroker motor for the street. Wrong distributor, push rods and cam were some of the problems. For example they sold him a fuel injected cam for his carb'ed street motor. A local Ford drag racing mechanic built the motor. It cost $1200 to get another mechanic to rebuild the motor. I could tell your several more stories but I think you get the idea. Pick your engine builder very carefully. Or it cost you a lot of misery and money.

Dwight

[Bobcat]

Wrench87 .... may be some extra work/expense , and I`m not knocking any engine builders in your area as I have no experience with them , but why don`t you send the engine to someone like Gessford or Keith Kraft ?? They are both top drawer and will be straight with you ... it might be cheaper in the long run.
Hey Rick ... as far as Gessford using two sets of bearings to get correct clearance .... some of the NASCAR builders I talked to used to put different thickness rod bearing halves ( thicker ) on the side of the rod journal that took the force on the power stroke , so you actually had two different thickness bearing halves on one journal . Don`t believe this is what Gessford is doing , but thought it was interesting .
Wrench87 whatever you do , good luck with the rebuild !

[RICK LAKE]

Bobcat Your right on what the good old boys do down in the nascar racing country. Yea I said country. Still today there are guys down there that can teach motor machine work to the best that advertise in todays magazines. Off set rods, the honda bearings and the list goes on. Gessford gets all there cranks about .003 over and does the final in house polishing and grinding for each motor. Basicly every crank is a custom fit to the rod and bearing for that surface. I have talked to Neil and the time it takes to do just this part of assembly is long and a pain. The bottom line is in the end the motor speaks for the company and the customers are happy. Gessford policy is that they don't hone, shave, or polish bearings to get the right clearance. I can't say the same for my motors. I have cheated in the past and 2 are still running today. It's amazing what 2 part epoxy can do and hold togeather. This was done on my own motors, not others. Have a good one Bob

[SantaFe66]

Rick,
I am building a 428 with Ebrock heads and will probably send them to KC for their stage 2 treatment. What size flow restricter is recommended for those heads and where do you get them? I'm using HS roller rockers and will have a KC recommended Hyd. roller cam & lifters. Will I still have to have the springs flooded with oil?

You mentioned bearing clearance of .002. Is that for a street motor? Just the mains or both?

Do you recommend end stands for the HS roller rockers?

Sorry to add to this thread but the answers might be of interest to the author too.

Paul

[undy]

Originally Posted by SantaFe66

Rick,
I am building a 428 with Ebrock heads and will probably send them to KC for their stage 2 treatment. What size flow restricter is recommended for those heads and where do you get them? I'm using HS roller rockers and will have a KC recommended Hyd. roller cam & lifters. Will I still have to have the springs flooded with oil?

You mentioned bearing clearance of .002. Is that for a street motor? Just the mains or both?

Do you recommend end stands for the HS roller rockers?

Sorry to add to this thread but the answers might be of interest to the author too.

Paul

I'm running 0.060" oil restrictors on my KC Pond 482" w/Keiths stage II Ebok heads.

Dave