Pilot Bushing loose

[xracerbob]

I went to install my pilot bushing in my KC Pond 482 motor this weekend and it fits somewhat loosely; as in you can easily pull it out of the crank. I believe these are supposed to be a light press fit. I was going to use one of the Permatex produxts as an adhesive to hold it in place but thought I'd check in here first.

I seem to remember that this issue has come up before buy my search yielded no solutions. The bushing is 1.853" dia. which is what it's supposed to be.

[Rick Parker]

I think you would require a light interference fit.I do not think the Locktite by itself is sufficient.

[orich]

I used some JB weld once had a hell of a time getting it out 20 yrs later.. No big deal

[undy]

If it's a bronze bushing you can have your local machine shop put a shallow knurl on it. If it's a needle bearing one then I'd use a prick punch and stake around the inside of the crank's end bore, where the bearing goes. All you need to do is "dig up" a little metal around the hole's circumference in two rows... and, viola!! a light press fit.. done it many times.

If you get carried away and put some deep furrows down you can always dress them up with a die grinder or the business end of a rat tailed file..

A press fit not only serves as a retention device but also serves to ensure input shaft concentricity. Simply put, make sure the bearing's centered.

Dave

[RICK LAKE]

xracerbob Bob before you do any thing, Who built the motor? Who's crank is in it. Call the machinist and tell him the problem and let him fix this. Yea you can add epoxy, liquid steel, or muffler cement to hold the bushin in there. You might also look for a roller bearing. SKF 6303-2RSJ works for FE cranks and GM input trans missions. Not sure which trans you have. You might call KCR, I beleive Keith has some oversize bearings. You can buy shim stock at some Lowes stores or home depots. I would start with the machinist. You paided for this motor to be built. This something he should have checked before final assembly. Rick L.

[CobraEd]

There was an entire thread about this around two months ago. One of the crankshaft manufacturers is making the hole too big. There wee tons of comments on how to potentially fix it. Do a search for "pilot bearing"


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[SSSammy]

I was the original poster. I had this exact problem on the KC Pond 482 in December. It is a bad batch of Eagle cranks, I think. We had a nice long thread about it, but it was on the temp server and it is gone until the next time this one breaks

I did call Keith, he recommended I distress the circumference of the bushing with a center punch. Make a couple rows of dots all around it, then cement it in with red Loctite. As it happened, the night before, I had tried slathering it with blue Loctite. When I went out to try Keith's method, it was stuck in so tight I decided to just leave it alone. I have no idea if this will last.

Other suggestions I got: Tom Kirkham said they had solved this by machining a steel sleeve at the correct diameter, then turning down a bronze bushing and pressing it into the sleeve, then press the sleeve into the crank.

Rick, I did go to the SKF web site and read the drawing on the bearing you recommended. The outside diameter was smaller than the hole I was trying to fill. Seems like the number was 1.850". So I did not try that one.

One other suggestion from someone: Eagle knows about this and has made up some special oversize bushings to ship to customers who call with this problem. Keith did not know about that. I never followed up.

Bob, you might buy another bushing from a different manufacturer just for a sanity check. Didn't help me, but at least I knew it was the crank and not the bushings.

I recommmend you call Keith and let him know you have this problem. He is a good businessman and he will work with you. I'm sure I could have sent the motor back, but I don't think it's worth the trouble if a simple fix will work. But Keith needs to know, and he should be getting Eagle involved and making them inspect their work. I think if you distress the circumference of the bushing, or knurl it, and glue it in with red Loctite, you'll be good.

Good luck!
Sam

[xracerbob]

Thanks all for the ideas. I think I will try the light knurl idea first. It's not that big a deal, I did email Keith, so far he has not gotten back to me.

I did measure the bushing and the crank- the bushing was 1.852 or so, the crank about .003 larger. I believe the crank is supposed to be 1.850 and the bushing .0025 larger for the light press fit.

[Excaliber]

Man I would be flipped out if the darn pilot bushing/bearing was so loose I had to glue it or stake it in place. That would really piss me off. OK, so it's WAY to much work to pull the crank and SHIP THE SUCKER BACK so your forced to do something.

Bad batch of cranks indeed, let them stick it where the sun don't shine. Let them sign a gaurentee THEY will pay for pulling the trans/clutch later when the bearing comes loose.

[Ronbo]

This sure doesn't speak well for Eagle, they would have shipping records and should be contacting the distributors at least.

[RedCSX1]

Bob, You might try bearing to see if it fits any tighter.

[Keithc8]

As hard as we try to check everything on every part that we get a few things do get by every now and then. Since we do not make all of the parts this happens from time to time. Also we are not dealing with a 80,000.00 NASCAR engine nor are we paying for one. The best fix for this is the one that Tom at Kirkham recommended and works just as well as a new crank install and maybe better. I have had them come a little small and a little large. Since this has come to light we have been checking all of the crankshafts the best we can and have let Eagle know about it. The fix is pretty easy. We turn down the bushing and press a sleeve on to it then the bushing hasd a press fit. Not really a big deal in the scope of the complete car build. If this is all we ran into with a complete car build it would not be to bad. Just let us know if we need to do a bushing for you. Thanks, Keith Craft

[xracerbob]

Keith-

I have a shop here that can put a light knurl on it and I'll try that first. If this is my only issue during the build, I would be delighted.

[speed220mph]

A knurl will work fine. So will Loctite's #620 Bearing & Bushing & Lock. I've used this stuff in similar applications such as the outer race of a trailer wheel bearing that had to go into a wallowed out wheel hub. Green Loctite expands to fill a clearance of up to 0.015 in. between the OD and bore, then locks. Your application is perfect for this product.

[RICK LAKE]

Keithc8 Keith I don't know if you guys built Bob's motor but in the future you could add to the price about installing the pilot bushing or bearing. This Would remove this problem from the engine builders. Most people are driving a manual trans, you would just need to know the input of the trans. Size and number of spline. Time to install the bushing 30 seconds. 1 less silly problem to deal with, PRICELESS. Just a thought. Rick L. Ps are you bringing that 527 cobra to Run&Gun this year? What cam do you have for a 456FE motor with 48mm webers. LSA needs to be 112-114. .620" lift max. Thanks

[CobraEd]

Best Engines for the dollar, 2 year warranty

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[Keithc8]

I am right here, did you not see my last post. You can reach me at 870-246-7460 if you need to MR. Where is he now. By the way I have spoken with my customer about this. Let me know if there is anything else I can do for you. By the way do I know you or better yet do you know me. Maybe you should.
Keith Craft

[Keithc8]

Rick that is a good ideal and something we will look into. We do engines for so many different applications that we might miss it every now and then. I do have the guys checking this now to make sure that it is OK. We started with a list of about 5 things to check after the engine is dynoed and we keep adding to that list.
I have sold the Kirkham with the 527 engine but hope to have something done to bring to Run-N-Gun. On the camshaft deal we have used some stuff in the 230/236 and 236/242 range on a 114 lobe seperation that has worked well. We install them about 4 degrees advanced and have been able to turn the engines about 6000rpms with this set up and Webbers. I should be able to get something in that lift range for your application. Good luck, Keith