427 FE What do you think?????

[priobe]

Hello All,

I am in the process of building my motor and would like to hear what you guys have to say.

Here is what I am expecting nothing has been ordered yet this is still on paper. I will make my decision by Friday

Heads ported and polished by Air Flow (Done)
Valves Intake = 2.190 (done)
Valve Exhaust = 1.73 (done)

Pistons = Wisco
Compression 10.5:1 maybe 11:1
Rods = (NASCAR Rods) = (Done)
Crank = NASCAR (done)

Weber = IDA 48 (done)

Cam = 254/262 Comp Energy Extreme cam LSA 114 Lift 680 (pending purchase)


What should I expect with this setup / comments suggestions

Note: I know many people feel that the NASCAR items are heavy but I am not worried about that.

[Excaliber]

I be a little worried about the compression, even with alloy heads 10.5 or 11 sounds like it's pushing the envelope. Man it sucks worrying about octane when your out for a drive. Now if you plan on getting some 'quench' in the combustion chamber that will help and you have a better chance of getting away with 11. Forged pistons, right? Will that cam profile work well within the range of your expected cruise rpm?

Iron heads on my FE, I went with quench AND still stayed at 9.8 to 1 c.r.

[priobe]

Yes, the pistons are forged and I will be running good gas sometimes.

I currently had a pair of JE which made it 9.5:1 but I feel that the motor needs more wind.

By the way these pistons will be up for sale if anyone wants them

I can get the specs and the condition of the pistons
Pistons only have maybe 800 miles on them and it is mostly idle.

If anyone is interested I can have pics by Saturday. The inverted dome.

[Chaplin]

If you plan on running Webers, I would check with someone in the know about whether that is too much cam for Webers. From what I've heard, Webers don't like too radical of a cam. Might be worth double checking before ordering your cam.

[blykins]

What are your goals? A cam that large is a lot for 427ci. It will be fussy at low rpm's and have a very high powerband with a sharp torque curve.

Some guys like that, some guys don't. But expect for the peak hp to be around 6800 (wild guess) and the torque to peak very high as well.

As a comparison, my 428FE that I assembled made 533hp @ 6500 rpm with stock out of the box Edelbrock heads and a 248/254 solid roller camshaft. Max torque was at 5400. With more cam and better heads, you're looking at a high hp peak.

If you're gonna go that route, you will need an intake to match, plan for a Dove single plane intake, a Tunnel Wedge, or a Victor FE. I'd also shoot for a low rearend ratio.

Don't expect it to be a city driver....

BTW, with a large duration cam, you *may* be able to get away with 10.5-11 compression with iron heads, but it's really iffy. Even with a .040" quench and the right timing, you may have to run a pump/race gas mix, or a race fuel altogether.

If it were my engine, I'd go for something that's still fun to drive, but something that would give you good street manners down low. You don't say what your heads flow, but a good flowing head with a matched cam and intake would still make excellent horsepower and still have a good broad torque curve.

I'd match it up with a Performer RPM and a hydraulic roller cam (unless your block won't work with juice stuff) with about 238-242 duration, and run about 9.5:1 compression.

Priobe, contact me off site about the camshaft. I may be able to help you out and save you a few bucks.

[Keithc8]

Like the guys mentioned I think that is way to much camshaft for the Webbers. I do not believe you will be happy with it and that you will have problems with the Webber tuning. They do not want to turn real high rpms anyway so I would look more at a 242/ 248 with about 114 lobe seperation and .620 to .630 lift. This would be on the big side and would even go smaller if I wanted it to drive real well down in the 2000 to 3000 rpms range which is where you cruise most of the time. Good Luck, Keith

[1985 CCX]

I would contact Keith C as he has a fantastic reputation and will be of great help I am sure. If you are planning to spend large dollars on a FE do your homework and talk to the right people.

I plan to one day swap my 351 for a modest 390FE. I will no doubt have Keith C be a part of that build as I only want to do it once and maximize bang for the buck.

[priobe]

Thanks for the feed back

This cam spec cam directly from Comp Cam which now owns Inglese. I spoke to Chuck at Inglese which worked with an Engineer over at Comp to come up with this spec out cam.

The cam which was in the more before was 245 /250 660 lift 112 LSA

This cam has to be mechanical because it is a 66 block.

From the looks of it, this is more cam than what I previously had and the motor was very tamed.


If figured if Keith C. gets any information it will be from Inglese on recommendation for cams with Webers. I have spoken to several people and when it comes to specifics with Webers many shy away.

I have heard that Comp Cams are pretty much right on the money with cam specs and I dont know of anyone that knows more about Webers than Inglese.

True it is under new ownership but my faith is with Comp and what I previously had inmy motor.

I am learn about cams and these FE motors which is why I am posting this thread.

If I am in correct please correct me.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by priobe

This cam spec cam directly from Comp Cam which now owns Inglese. I spoke to Chuck at Inglese which worked with an Engineer over at Comp to come up with this spec out cam.

The cam which was in the more before was 245 /250 660 lift 112 LSA

This cam has to be mechanical because it is a 66 block.

If figured if Keith C. gets any information it will be from Inglese on recommendation for cams with Webers. I have spoken to several people and when it comes to specifics with Webers many shy away.

I have heard that Comp Cams are pretty much right on the money with cam specs and I dont know of anyone that knows more about Webers than Inglese.

I am learn about cams and these FE motors which is why I am posting this thread.

If I am in correct please correct me.

If you are going to go with what CompCams said in the first place, why even ask these questions?

[Keithc8]

Being a flat tappet makes a difference because you will loose effective duration and lift with the lash. It depends on which lobes that you use as to what the lash will be. You can normally deduct about 6 to 10 degrees with a flat tappet to make it the same as a hydraulic because there is no lash. So that would put my flat tappet at about 248 to 250 intake and about 256 to 258 on the exhaust. The lift of .660 would also become more like .630 to .640 with the lash and pushrod flex. Good luck, Keith

[blykins]

Comp Cams is not always on with their cam selection....you can call them 3 different times and get 3 different answers. You're better off talking to KC or directly to a cam grinder.

[patrickt]

Priobe, with all the problems that you've had getting your engine to run right, getting the Webers adjusted, eliminating the misses, and what not, don't you think you'd be better off just crating it up and shipping it out to one of the big name FE builders? We'd all be watching them to see how it turned out so you know they'd probably put in "a little extra effort" on it. Don't even tell them what to put in it, just tell them what your goals are, how you plan on driving it, and then get out of their way.

[Jerry Clayton]

If you want to straigten out your engine yourself----take the Webers off and put on a Holley 3310 carb---when you get the engine running right, then change to the webers if you still want to run them. And while you have the manifold off put a cam in it that has only about 560-580 net lift and reasonable duration so that it'll runn below 3500 rpm

Jerry

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

If you want to straigten out your engine yourself----take the Webers off and put on a Holley 3310 carb...

Hmmm, maybe something like this? Adjusting anything on the secondary side is a real cinch with a 4160 like this:

[priobe]

Hi Patrickt and others,

I have contacted Keith Craft which has shyed away from the Weber setup. I have contacted other FE engine builders and they "ALL" have the same response why not use Injection or a 4 BBL setup. I am not sure who I talk to over the phone but with a response like that I would have to say that they do not have much experience with the Webers.

Honestly lets face it, many people claim to be good "FE" engine builders but when you slap on a set of Webers their tune changes.

I think we can agree that Ingese is one of leaders with Webers.

Some of you have asked why even post this thread if I plan on going with Comp recommendation. Well, like with anything I do I like to test my results before spending the money to hear what others have to say. My intensions are not to start a debate about camshafts because I have so far learned that everyone that comments needs more information to reach a final cam spec. And even then many differ for different reasons.

This is how I learn

As for crating up a motor and sending it to someone to build this motor, I would have to fly that individual down to tune the carbs in the car. I really dont think it is worth all of that to get these Webers to work.

Like I said, this is a spec cam which Inglese in conjunction with Comp Cams. Chuck from Inglese and Tim from Comp feel this would be the best solution.

I know it seems like a big cam but aren't these motors BB. When I start my Cobra I would like to hear it like a BB not tamed like the last cam.

Even from this thread I am not able to make a determination execpt to send it to someone and let them build it as they wish.

Which is fine. I am only looking for feedback / discussion.

And even then I might not be happy because once again I let someone build my motor against what I suggested.

I am just gathering thoughts feedback and suggestions

No Harm to anyone

[Jerry Clayton]

Patrick

NO, Not one like that !!!!!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

Patrick

NO, Not one like that !!!!!

Oh, now my feelings are hurt. I love my little 4160, I really do.

[Jerry Clayton]

I like the ones with the secondary metering blocks---those metering plates are a pain to stock---I want to use jets--there is a kit that you can get to convert your carb

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

I like the ones with the secondary metering blocks---those metering plates are a pain to stock---I want to use jets--there is a kit that you can get to convert your carb

Yes, a lot of people feel that way. Although I have to say my 4160 runs perfectly and the 750CFM gives excellent throttle response. Priobe, when I wrote "adjusting anything on the secondary side is a real cinch" that was "carb humor." You can't adjust anything on the secondary side of a 4160, except when the vacuum actually opens them. All in all, it's a very simple carb, but it's been a stalwart performer for decades.

[priobe]

Thanks for the clarification

I feel like I between a rock and a hard place with these Webers.