Oil in coolant

[MaSnaka]

I am terrified of the possible outcome here. Today I checked my coolant and it was scummy with oil at the surface. Checked the oil and it looks like oil...no coolant. Any thoughts as to what this means? I am sure I shouldn't be driving it this way although it seems to run fine. Please help, thanks.
390fe '64 block with stock heads, Edelbrock 390 rpm performer intake.
John

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

I am terrified of the possible outcome here. Today I checked my coolant and it was scummy with oil at the surface. Checked the oil and it looks like oil...no coolant.

By any chance are you running synthetic oil? Sometimes an FE can have very small cracks in the galley leading from the cam up to the head that will allow weeping under high pressure. If you're running a synthetic oil, you might first try switching to dyno and, of course, change the coolant and see if you get lucky.

[MaSnaka]

No synthetic here. I have done some upgrades over the last few months to improve oil pressure (peaks at about 70 psi cold and runs at 35 psi warmed up). Large capacity pan and pick up, removed the oil cooler and plumbing. I also have a HV oil pump. Any other ideas?

John

[HI Cobra]

Any coolant in the oil? Like milky looking oil? Or is it a one way street -
oil going in the coolant? Coolant in the oil can be from a bad head gasket,
warped head, or similar malady. Good luck with finding the problem - I
don't think you want to run it any more until you do.

[RICK LAKE]

MaSnaka Try the FE forumn. Royce, Dave Shoe, Barry R., and other have 40-45 years with FE motors. It does not sound good, the only thing I can think of is did you or the assemblier install the head gasket the wrong way. It can go on either way, the motor will run fine but after about an hour it runs hot. Felpro gasket have arrows that point forward to install, you have to flip 1 gasket to keep the arrow forward. If you search on the FE forumn it shows you what to look for. I don't want to get this wrong for you, but you are looking for a tab on each side, I THINK. And I just built my stroker in Sept last year. The other thing is a small crack that when the motor cools is sucks oil into the coolant system. You could try a coolant sealer for the motor. I would first check the gaskets. Where the heads and block pressure tested before and work done? Some machinist use 100 psi and in a water tank over night. It's not 100% perfect but does catch problems. Try Gessford machine for help. Rick L. Good luck

[patrickt]

I agree with Rick L. -- post a message on the FE forum 332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum and invite suggestions. You're likely to hear a recommendation to pull the rockers, pressurize the coolant, and see if you see something bubbling out. You might also receive this suggestion:

Try sealing the head bolts using liquid teflon thread sealer on the bolt threads. Pull the 2 head bolts where the oil comes up from the block, clean the threads with spray carb cleaner like Berryman's and wipe the hole clean and dry, this is very important. Coat the threads of the head bolts with liquid teflon thread sealer and re-install, torque to specs. Re-install the rockershaft. Flush the cooling system with machine dishwasher detergent such as Cascade [low sudsing], it may take a couple of treatments to get the system clean as oil will mess up the radiator and cooling system. If you live a charmed life and the stars are in alighnment the teflon will seal the crack in the deck of the block where the oil passage and the head bolt hole are the closest. I had the same problem with a D4TE block and using the recommendations of "Engbldr" of this forum I cured the oil-in-the-coolant problem. No guarantees this will work but it just may save you a whole lotta work if it does. Otherwise the engine has to come out and be torn down to do the sleeve-in-the-oil-passage trick if you go by the AERA service bulletin issued for this problem.

[undy]

..look to your intake gaskets for the minor weeping. FE intake gaskets are their Achilles heel for internal coolant leaks. What brand gaskets are you using??

Dave

[ENTDOC]

perhaps a small amount of oil found its way into a water passage during the build and you have no problem at all. I would flush the system and look again. If there is no water in the oil then I feel you are pretty safe.

[c6ae]

This is a pretty common FE problem.
It can usually be attributed to a cracked block.
There are a couple of “fixes”
Gessford has published the AERA (automotive engine rebuilders association) bulletins regarding the cause and repair of this problem.
Here; Gessford.com
(I have done the repair in the vehicle, a gamble, but it was just a car with a 390 and the risk of failure was not as critical as an expensive performance engine)

[Ronbo]

I'd try the simplest thing first, re-tourqe heads and intake. If this doesn't fix it change the gaskets, pressure test, ect.

Hope it's not a crack...

I'd also adjust the bypass spring for the pump to a lower pressure, say around 60psi. This won't effect volume (your oiling system determines how much oil it will take). It's important to keep in mind the pressures these engines were designed to run. I'd be suprised if your filter doesn't weep a little at those pressures. Most of these engines ran around 40psi (cold) in factory state.

[patrickt]

Do a combination of Ronbo & Ear, Nose & Throat suggested. Retorque, flush & fill both fluids, and then observe.

[MaSnaka]

Hey I just popped in to take a quick look at some advice and answers. Just a few comments...The engine has about 8K miles since a rebuild. Rebuild was done by the previous owner who farmed it all out to various shops of which I have no knowledge. Oil looks clean, the oil in the coolant seems more than just some residual from seepage or machine work residue. The coolant a year ago was bright green, now it looks like toxic waste. I stick my finger in as a dip stick and it comes out with a 50/50 blend of oil and antifreeze. I am assuming that since oil floats on water this condition is most noticable at the top most area which is in the resivor fill tank. The engine has not over heated and does not run hot. Thanks for your help, I certainly have my work cut out for me. This gives me a place to start.

John

[Ronbo]

I kinda doubt it's a crack because of the description. Likely a gasket that can't contain the pressure difference when the engine is cold. A cold un-expanded gasket getting hit with 70psi oil on one side and an un-pressurized coolant system on the other.

Once the engine warms up coolant pressure raises and oil drops, the leak stops.

If it was a crack when the engine is shut down the oil goes to 0psi with 15+psi hot coolant. (coolant in oil)

[MaSnaka]

Ronbo, I sure hope your right. I'm not sure how soon I will get to this, busy weekend comming and busy work week ahead. I still need to post on the FE forum and see what I get there. I will keep progress updates posted. Thanks all for the help and support.

John