ignition grief

[Scufty]

ok parked the car 4 days ago ...went to start it today ...No spark
MSD 6al box and a MSD dist with a magnetic pickup
I tested the msd box by jumping the 2 wires going to the dist from the msd box...big spark from the top of the coil to the coil wire. when I turn the car over ...NO spark at all. big black wire straight to neg on bat ...big red wire straifght to pos on bat...I have 12.0 V at the red wire leaving box and going to ign ...Mag pickup?

[Scufty]

what the hell else can there be? if the spark jumps from the top of the coil to the coil wire during this test wouldn't that say the coil is fine>? I also tried another coil...no go?

[Rick Parker]

It's not the coil...............It is the magnetic pickup inside the distributor.....read on


From the MSD website:

"The magnetic pickup in MSD Distributors can also be checked with an Ohm meter to make sure it is within operating specifications. Once again, connect the Ohm meter's leads to the two terminals of the pickup. The resistance should be within 400 - 1,300 ohms. If the resistance is out of this specification, inspect the condition of the wires leading to the pickup for abrasion, shorting or opens. If the wiring is okay, the pickup is at fault."
NOTE: The Ignition will check good if the pickup is at fault (Scufty you did THIS)

[Scufty]

Thanks rick I did try to test the resistance and it seems to be bad...(not within) the spec but Im really crappy at wiring and checking wiring ...I will be going to buy a new pickup tomorrow ...cant hurt I guess thanks
I suspect the mag pickup as well ...

[Rick Parker]

No doubt........

[cobred]

It might sound silly but make sure the dist. is turning while cranking the engine.

[Scufty]

nothing is silly but ya I checked that ..and also made sure the rotor was in there ...heard of people forgetting that LOL

[Rick Parker]

Make note of the colors of the stripes on the wires coming out of the distributor and which wire they connect with at the connector. Write it down.

[rokndad]

One more chiming in here.....MSD doesn't have any info about the magnetic pickup being moveable. In other words, the two stainless cap screws with locking nuts allow some movement of the pickup and magnet assembly within the distributor housing. I installed two of them and they were too far away from the eight-bladed reluctor to trigger a magnetic pulse. After three frustrating weekends, I finally set the magnetic coil pickup at about .030" gap away from the reluctor and bang!! Instant fire. Also make sure the little carbon contact inside the distributor cap is intact.

Make sure you put some RTV on the pickup so it doesn't move later. And check the gap after you've tightened down the pickup. I am really surprised MSD doesn't have any procedure detailed for this issue. Best of luck.

[undy]

Originally Posted by rokndad

One more chiming in here.....MSD doesn't have any info about the magnetic pickup being moveable. In other words, the two stainless cap screws with locking nuts allow some movement of the pickup and magnet assembly within the distributor housing. I installed two of them and they were too far away from the eight-bladed reluctor to trigger a magnetic pulse. After three frustrating weekends, I finally set the magnetic coil pickup at about .030" gap away from the reluctor and bang!! Instant fire. Also make sure the little carbon contact inside the distributor cap is intact.

Make sure you put some RTV on the pickup so it doesn't move later. And check the gap after you've tightened down the pickup. I am really surprised MSD doesn't have any procedure detailed for this issue. Best of luck.

My FE MSD Pro Billet magnetic pickup sh!t the bed on me a few months ago. The pickup came with detailed instructions, including reluctor gapping. MSD's website also has good instructions on it.. That's where I got all my troubleshooting information. My replacement pickup had enough slop in the two mounting holes that I could adjust it too far in or too far out. You have to RTV it in place too, in the instructions also.

Dave

[Ronbo]

I have to admit what I've been reading lately does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling about MSD stuff...

Seems like points last longer, not to mention they have a built-in rev limiter called "contact float".

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I have to admit what I've been reading lately does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling about MSD stuff...

Seems like points last longer, not to mention they have a built-in rev limiter called "contact float".

Ron,points are like Richard Simmons entering a UFC fight..what's the point?(pun intended)
MSD makes good stuff,their customer service is good to great.I have 6AL's on everything except the Cummins and my SCCA car.

[rokndad]

Undy,

You have sharper eyes than I do. I just went all over the MSD website and couldn't find anything on gapping the magnetic pickup. I re-read both the instructions that came with my MSD distributor (P/N 8594), and those that came with the replacement trigger (P/N 84661). Nothing about setting a gap. There is some info in their recent bulletins about checking the impedance or resistance of the wires, but nothing I could see about proper gapping. Where exactly did you see this info?

[PANAVIA]

MSD with no moving parts =6AL , great.

MSD with moving parts --->? jury is out >?

[undy]

Originally Posted by rokndad

Undy,

You have sharper eyes than I do. I just went all over the MSD website and couldn't find anything on gapping the magnetic pickup. I re-read both the instructions that came with my MSD distributor (P/N 8594), and those that came with the replacement trigger (P/N 84661). Nothing about setting a gap. There is some info in their recent bulletins about checking the impedance or resistance of the wires, but nothing I could see about proper gapping. Where exactly did you see this info?

Their web site's info that I used was the MSD box and magnetic pick-up trouble shooting information. After the box tested fine then I went to the pick-up. It read 100% open with the ol' multi-meter. When I got the new magnetic pick-up (a couple months ago) there were detailed instructions (including gapping) in with the magnetic pick-up. It told of the RTV'ing it in place too. I used a set of feeler gauges to set mine. Pulling the distributor made it much easier too. If you mark rotor position and distributor position exactly you don't even have to put a timing light back on it either ... if your good.. (I used a timing light..)

As to MSD's quality.. I would think their magnetic pickups should last over 10,000 miles. This seems to be a relatively common failure too. The OEMs use the same/similar technology and their's (typically) last several hundred thousand miles ... and beyond.

Dave

[rokndad]

Undy,

Was your new pick up P/N 84661? If so, MSD must have a new set of instructions that isn't even published on their website. Can you scan it or somehow show it to us, and what are the gapping recommendations from that sheet? I would really like to see this. Thx.

[Rick Parker]

As to MSD's quality.. I would think their magnetic pickups should last over 10,000 miles. This seems to be a relatively common failure too. The OEMs use the same/similar technology and their's (typically) last several hundred thousand miles ... and beyon

The module with the exception of the baseplate looks identical to that used in a late 70's early 80's Ford OEM distributor. Same color potting, insulation etc.

[undy]

Originally Posted by rokndad

Undy,

Was your new pick up P/N 84661? If so, MSD must have a new set of instructions that isn't even published on their website. Can you scan it or somehow show it to us, and what are the gapping recommendations from that sheet? I would really like to see this. Thx.

Yep, that's the number. The enclosed instructions were not on their website. I went out to the garage to look for it but evidently I pitched the instructions away. It was just one sheet. Try calling MSD's tech line. I'm sure they can fax you a copy or maybe point you to a download.

Dave

[rokndad]

Hey Undy,

Thanks for going out to take a look. You would have been disappointed if you found it anyway.

I just got off the phone with the MSD Tech Line (915) 855-7123 after speaking to a 6AL/Billet Dist tech named Dray. He said there is currently nothing either on their website nor on the installation sheet that comes with the replacement magnetic pickup for our distributors, but the tech dept is working as we speak on a bulletin to update their information regarding testing both for resistance (to confirm if the pickup is within spec) and gap between the reluctor and the pickup itself (whether it triggers the box or not). He confirmed the new spec sheet will state the pickup should be gapped between .025 and .035". I guessed and set it at .030. Problem solved, I think.

[undy]

Originally Posted by rokndad

Hey Undy,

Thanks for going out to take a look. You would have been disappointed if you found it anyway.

I just got off the phone with the MSD Tech Line (915) 855-7123 after speaking to a 6AL/Billet Dist tech named Dray. He said there is currently nothing either on their website nor on the installation sheet that comes with the replacement magnetic pickup for our distributors, but the tech dept is working as we speak on a bulletin to update their information regarding testing both for resistance (to confirm if the pickup is within spec) and gap between the reluctor and the pickup itself (whether it triggers the box or not). He confirmed the new spec sheet will state the pickup should be gapped between .025 and .035". I guessed and set it at .030. Problem solved, I think.

I know it was on the sheet. It wouldn't be the first time a MSD tech wasn't up to speed. I had no other source to give me the required info. I also remember trying to figure out about the RTV too. The instruction talked to that. I know I'm not halucinating?? I'll try looking a little more in the garage to see if it pops up. It's got me bothered now..


Dave