Various 427 Questions, New Member

[elmariachi]

Hello,

I am new here, working on building a 427SO and looking at various kits from which to build a MKIII this winter. I am in Houston and though this is my first build, I have quite a bit of experience with high-performance offshore boats, 4-wheel drives and older muscle cars. But never a big honkin' Ford FE. I have located a 1969 SO block though I am still going back and forth between it and a Genesis. My plan is to build it up at 427ci, single 4-barrel, medium riser, ~500hp. So a few questions:

1. I have located a nice C5AE forged steel crank, cross-drilled, re-ground 10 under and perfect after magnafluxing and balancing. Would this be preferred to say the Scat 9000 $700 crank?

2. How are the Blue Thunder head and intake products? Are there better choices for the $$?

3. I have read that Le Mans rods are too big and heavy versus the newer stuff, but I have a nice set that are ready to go. I don't have an endless budget, but want to spend wisely in the most critical areas. Will they get it done or should I go with a newer H-beam?

Thanks in advance for any comments or feedback.

Jim

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

You got some good stuff there. I'd stay with as many original Ford products as possible, just keeping with the spirit of the original 427 Cobra. Many opinions will differ here, but my Cobra has lots of blue cast iron. It runs great and I don't need a 650 HP aluminum monster, although that 427 can be built to kick ass. As for Cobra kits, buy what you like and what you can afford. Good luck.

[Excaliber]

Wow, I'm impressed! Like ZOERA said, you got some good stuff, I'd stay the course, and that includes the '69 FE block. I'd also go flat tappet cam, myself, NOT a solid roller for sure! You do have the option of looking into a hydraulic roller as the 69 block would support that. Once you figure out your peak rpm range (6000-6500?) then you can start to match the heads to that number. Why run heads capable of supporting 7000 if your only going 6200 or whatever, kind of thing. Same for the intake, whats the target rpm range? Once you get that nailed down you can figure out what rear end gear ratio or your final drive ratio (in case of an OD type trans) would work best with your package.

I had a killer 427 side oiler, over 600 horse, with a solid roller stick that didn't 'come on the cam' until 3000 rpm or so. Which was really a drag when I found myself stuck in traffic with a high rear end ratio and had to drop a gear to keep the rpm up and the motor happy! I rebuilt with a milder cam, smaller carbs, gave up about a 150 horse and didn't even miss it! MPG doubled, streetability was vastly improved and the lower compression allows for 'pump gas' and it's STILL dang near as fast as it was before! 11.90 with 600 plus horse and open headers vs 11.99 with 500 horse and running the SIDE PIPES! You see the key is, 'traction limited', if you can't hook up more than 500 horse, whats the point of having more? I want to DRIVE to the track and 'run what I brung', not screw around with slicks or whatever.

[Reuben Cain]

It's my 1st time here and I just wanted to say hello and tell you why I'm here. I love 427 Cammers and have just completed my 5th build. This time I went Blown Alky and so for so good. I started the warm-up and after 30 sec she spoke to me!, She made a little cherp, like somthing metel rubbing, I shut down and pulled the valve covers to find 4 rollor rocker wheels locking up. I have another set coming on Friday 8/1/08. I'll check back with you over the week-end.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Wow, I'm impressed! Like ZOERA said, you got some good stuff, I'd stay the course, and that includes the '69 FE block. I'd also go flat tappet cam, myself, NOT a solid roller for sure! You do have the option of looking into a hydraulic roller as the 69 block would support that. Once you figure out your peak rpm range (6000-6500?) then you can start to match the heads to that number.

That's exactly my thinking, sort out the RPM range (you hit the nail on the head at 6-6500) and build it out from there.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I want to DRIVE to the track and 'run what I brung', not screw around with slicks or whatever.

I have been bored out of my mind since coming to Houston in 2004...and so living only 60 miles from the world famous Texas World Speedway I want to be able to drive up, run the track and drive home.

Thanks for the feedback on this.

[Excaliber]

Welcome to the new guys! Sounds like your gonna be a great addition to the Club. Get some pics posted in your gallery of the 'good stuff' going down. Alky Cammer? Dang, thats radical man, gotta love it.

[undy]

Go with the Genesis or better yet, a Pond aluminum block. Stroke the snot outta the puppy (4.25" to 4.375"). Get some aluminum (Ebok or Blue Thunder) CNC'd BIG port heads. There's some new off shore forged 4340 moly cranks out there that when prep'd well make for a bullet proof bottom end. They're about the same price as the Scat stuff too. Round it out with some Diamond pistons and a big mutha of a hydraulic roller. Hang a set of Mickey Thompson ET Street drag radials on the back (what I run) and start looking for those displacement deficient, wimpy, underpowered 500 HP 427 side oilers to biatch slap around. I can cruise all day at 1800 rpm and yank daylight under the fronts on a launch when I need to. My vote is.... 650HP, or bust.

Dave

[elric]

Is this on a Cammer or Wedge engine? If Cammer make sure rocker arm has oil feed holes from shaft hole to roller side of arm. Also, check the oil feed hole from cylinder head to rocker shaft; usually they are almost completely covered and you will need to drill new holes in the correct position.

Steve

[SoTxButler]

You have some good stuff for your side oiler. I have some stuff you might need, water pump with about 500 miles, Demon 850 carb, MSD box and distributor, a manifold for high rise heads if you end up there. If you have a need for any of that stuff, PM me. My car is in Houston and I am during the week, out of town on weekends.

I sure enjoy my FE and I know you will enjoy yours.

[elmariachi]

Thanks for the good replies. SoTxButler I would definitely be interested in a few of your items. I will PM you.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I'd also go flat tappet cam, myself, NOT a solid roller for sure!

I think he means solid, flat tappet. I always post a praise or two about solid flat tappets in an FE, but I tend to get shot down by the roller and hydraulic crowd. Especially some guy named Lykins...

[RedCSX1]

Go with Blue Thunder heads if you can afford it. Really good quality castings. May have to run Tand D rockers setup but it will be sweet with that block. If you are going for stock stroke then stay with the Ford rods an crank with ARP bolts and nuts. Polish the rod beams and balance. Go with a 242-245 /600 cam range. Also run Blue Thunder ported dual plane intake with the setup.

[Excaliber]

Yup, solid flat tappet for me. If I do another side oiler, or center oiler for that matter, I want to go back to the original short stroke crank. Maybe I'll go with modern light weight rods, unless I happen to have some good Le Mans rods on hand. I think the original design, short stroke, big bore was a pretty nice setup and should 'build rpm' a little faster than a stroker would.

[RodKnock]

It's a matter of "old school" versus "new school" and budget.

There are those of us who prefer modern aluminum blocks, aluminum heads, forged rods and crank, and roller cams. Having said that, you have some very nice parts and you should use them if they're still good.

[patrickt]

In addition to the solid flat tappet, I also always throw in a recommendation for aluminum flywheels (and get shot down less often). Unless you're building a drag-race only Cobra I think you'll find that it works quite well with an FE.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Elmariachi: Just wait till you ask for Cobra kit recommendations! Lots of stones (rocks) will be flying through the internet wires.

[olddog]

If you already had the crank ballanced with those rods, you might as well stick with them. If you switch to H beam rods you will have to have the crank reballanced for the lighter rods.

You really should have the complete rotating assembly, including ballancer and flywheel all together when it is ballanced.

From what I have read, those rods are plenty strong, but a little heavy for high rpm work. Although back in the day, it is claimed that they ran them at 7000 rpm all day long.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Elmariachi: Just wait till you ask for Cobra kit recommendations! Lots of stones (rocks) will be flying through the internet wires.

I can't wait.

Originally Posted by olddog

If you already had the crank ballanced with those rods, you might as well stick with them. If you switch to H beam rods you will have to have the crank reballanced for the lighter rods.

I mis-stated, it has not been balanced with those rods, only magnafluxed. Decision, decisions.

Will I be able to sleep at night using 40 year old iron? Should I say the hell with it and slap some Keith Craft into the bottom of a Pond block? Though that'll simply kill my budget.

Thanks for the feedback guys, it is all much appreciated.

[xracerbob]

It is the responsibility of all members of this forum to blow your budget for you.

[Excaliber]

xracerbob, man aint THAT the truth!!!

The argument over '40 year old rods' vs modern rods has been hammered as often as 'which kit to buy'. Myself, I DON'T buy the argument that 40 year old rods are any weaker today than they were, say, 40 years ago! As if somehow metal fatigue sets in while the rods 'sit' over time? OK, you could ALWAYS make a case for new rods, and that seems to be our job here. Apparently our responsibility is, as xracerbob has made clear, to blow your budget for you by ALWAYS being ultra safe and politically correct, dollars be damned.

I had my rotating assembly balanced INCLUDING the flywheel AND pressure plate! The one area where I spent the big bucks was for custom pistons to move the piston UP in the hole to achieve 'quench'. I think the standard spec is something like .030 below deck for a side oiler, which means there is NO quench at all. To control compression I then had the pistons 'dished' the appropriate amount to arrive at 9.6 to 1 with iron heads. It was previously 12.5 to 1 and a real pain in the butt trying to find 'race gas' everytime I needed a fill up (which was often at 6 mpg).

See my "Engine Blog" for more info if you like:
427 side oiler engine build "Blog"