How can this be done? 428 stroker to 482

[Barry_R]

Don't know about that guy's operation. His pricing seems too cheap to be all that good. Not that I really object to somebody getting a deal - but I know what the parts actually cost. The only variables left are machining and labor - - how cheaply can you get good work done? How cheap are you willing to go to do your best quality work - whether you're a doctor, lawyer, executive, mechanic, or ?

I intentionally never undercut other vendors that throw down on pricing. We price our parts and services as fairly and honestly as possible. Like innumerable other small businesses we will price match if needed (example - I sell more Scat product than anybody in the Great Lakes region other than Summit, and do have the ability to "bomb" pricing on numerous lines - but absolutely refuse to do it) - underpricing the market will only hurt our niche segment - chasing a hustler will take my business out just as quickly as it will his.

When you are looking for a supplier you should find somebody that can deliver proof of their ability to deliver a good product. There are numerous places for a vendor who cares to display their wares. George has proven their skills in the Cobra community. Keith has proven his talents in the Drag Racing world. I choose to use the Engine Masters Challenge. Seems like the subject of this thread has chosen the keyboard...

[Don]

Barry:

Is this the link which includes the detail of your engines for the Engine Masters Challenge ?

http://www.survivalmotorsports.com/

Can you comment on the technical aspects of the initial question at the start of this Thread ?

Has anyone seen these ads and how can he do what he claims to 428 blocks. He also uses 2.25/1.75 valves on the 470ci block

......thanks

[tool time George]

FFR428 "words of wisdom forsure" i know your right and keith made us a sweet offer of an all aluminum 482 for 14,995.
I've been drooling ever since,unfortunately at the moment my budget won't allow it.
I'm i canada and by the time duty taxes and exchange factor in i'd be in for 20k. I guess i'm going to have to work harder and eat popcorn and mac'n cheese.lol
TTGeorge

[Great Asp]

That Barry looks like a happy sort of guy!



jk.....

E

[olddog]

Originally Posted by tool time George

FFR428 "words of wisdom forsure" i know your right and keith made us a sweet offer of an all aluminum 482 for 14,995.
I've been drooling ever since,unfortunately at the moment my budget won't allow it.
I'm i canada and by the time duty taxes and exchange factor in i'd be in for 20k. I guess i'm going to have to work harder and eat popcorn and mac'n cheese.lol
TTGeorge

Not trying to be a turd here, but I thought NAFTA was a free trade agreement. I would think you could purchase items from the USA same as you could in Canada. I'm curious to know.

[olddog]

I was hoping some of you more experianced folks could answer the how question.

Can a 4-3/8" crank and a 0.060" over bore be used to build a reliable 428 block at the advertised 482 cid?

I understand the price sounds too good to be true, but is it possible to build the engine?

[FWB]

you can build it but i wouldnt start it.

[undy]

Originally Posted by olddog

I was hoping some of you more experianced folks could answer the how question.

Can a 4-3/8" crank and a 0.060" over bore be used to build a reliable 428 block at the advertised 482 cid?

I understand the price sounds too good to be true, but is it possible to build the engine?

You're pushing the envelope with a 0.030" over bore done to a 428 block. Even if you didn't punch through a water jacket ring sealing and running cool would be a thing of the past..

Dave

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FWB

you can build it but i wouldnt start it.

That's almost as bad as my picture of the Dino the Dinosaur.

[cobrarkc]

Ok guys now that we have Keith and Barry in on this one can they please answer the original questions from a technical stand. From everything I have read over the years both here and elsewhere they can't be done. So unless things have changed please fill us in.

("Has anyone seen these ads and how can he do what he claims to 428 blocks. He also uses 2.25/1.75 valves on the 470ci block")
BTW the 470 is still a 428 block

[blykins]

I'm not Barry or Keith, but I was under the impression that 2.25" intake valves only worked on a 427 bore. Doesn't the 427 even need a little cylinder notching to make it work?

It was either a typo and he meant 2.150" valves, or he's blowing smoke.

[cobred]

Why not go back on the ebay add and ask the seller the questions. Nobody better to answer then him.

[undy]

Originally Posted by cobred

Why not go back on the ebay add and ask the seller the questions. Nobody better to answer then him.

send him the link and let him answer it himself..

[FFR428]

With a .060 4.19 bore and 4.25 stroke you get 469 CU. Just fudge it to 470".

On the 482" same thing. Ad says forged crank so my guess it's the 4.375 RPM crank with a .060 4.19 bore and there's your 482" out of a 428 block.

I have no idea how he's using the 2.25 and 1.72 valves and getting them to work.

My simple guess............

[SFfiredog]

and if I recall the Mach 5 was pretty fast!
Just ask Spritel and Chim Chim

SFFD

[cobred]

Just for the hell of it I emailed pops and asked about the bore and stroke. Not much of an answer, just 4.190 x 4.375.
Someone else can ask about the valves.

[Keithc8]

This pushing the 428 block for sure. Not many of them are very good at .060 bore. You add that stroke and side load and you might be asking for trouble. Would probably be fine in most street applications.
The crank is a 4340 steel crankshaft with the 4.375 stroke and you would usea 6.700 rod with a custom piston. That big of intake valve would be pushing it a little and I do not feeel that it would help anything on that small of a bore. You could use the 2.19 valve in the Edelbrock head and it would work pretty good but I fel the 2.250 valve would be to shrouded.
The factory 428 blocks were good for about 600 HP and 6500 rpms and much over that and they would split down the middle of the number 2 or 4 mains if not both.
Good luck with any and all of your FE builds. Thanks, Keith

[cobrarkc]

[ You could use the 2.19 valve in the Edelbrock head and it would work pretty good but I fel the 2.250 valve would be to shrouded.
. Thanks, Keith[/quote]

I was under the impression that you couldn't use the 2.19 or 2.25 valve on a 428 because you have to notch the cylinder walls and there isn't enough meat on them.

[Barry_R]

The 2.19 valve works fine in a 428 with an Edelbrock head. We do a bunch of them like that (actually using a 2.20). The exhaust is what gets real close to the wall - we use a 1.71. I see no benefits to the 2.25 valves in any case on my stuff - which is primarily serious street pump gas applications with target RPM ranges around 6500-7000.

As Keith noted - a .060 over 428 is usually just waiting for a vertical split in a wall - not really a matter of "if" - more a matter of "when". Same observations regarding power capacity of the block. Somewhere in that 600 range and things seem to get fragile. Again, my target customers get steered towards a more conservative package if they're doing a 390 or 428 based build. These days we can actually get past the capability of the block pretty easily - it used to be a lot harder. At the 600 or better level the Genesis iron becomes a very worthwhile upgrade and makes good financial sense once you factor in the cost of cross bolt conversions and the enhanced resale value.

[cobrarkc]

Barry,
Thanks for clarifying that for me about the valves, and thanks to both Barry and Keith for your information. It seems this guy is stretching these blocks to their limits. I didn't know they were capable of these numbers.