Question for the FE know it alls

[vxurazz]

Wanted to know if the aluminum Pond block can be set up with a dry sump for road racing?

I've found a few sites that carry some of the equipment, but figure people like Barry R. and Keith C. would be in the know.

j

[Suomien]

any engine with an oil pan configuration, and all others that I can think of, can have a dry sump system installed.

do you really think you're ready to start building an engine, even tangentially through the efforts of others, if this question stumps you?

[cdnus]

Suomien
You should keep your sh--ty remarks to yourself ---unless you have money invested in his project.
Stop being such a smart ass.

[Suomien]

Originally Posted by cdnus

Suomien
You should keep your sh--ty remarks to yourself ---unless you have money invested in his project.
Stop being such a smart ass.

hey! at least I answered his question. what have you added to the thread except vitroil?

[SoTxButler]

The answer is Yes! I have a dry sump FE. The system is an old system used on some CAN-Am cars many years ago. I am in the process of changing my system because of the leaks from the two piece pan. My block is an aluminum Dove and can assure you that with a dry sump, you will not starve your engine while racing. I cannot believe a Pond block would be any different.

I am currently working with Bill Dailey at daileyengineering.com. Check out this guy's work. I just about have him convinced to build a billet pan with an integrated pump (no pan scavenge lines) for an FE. He builds a lot of pans for racers, but believes the FE is too old and not enough people are still interested in the FE.

I would encourage you to look at his site...the work is incredible. If anyone has an interest in a dry sump...contact Bill and let him know there are a lot of us FE guys who would buy this pan and pump. I need everyone to help convince him to build one for me.

[vxurazz]

Suomien,

If you bothered to read the entire post you would see two very prominent names in the engine building biz. You might also have noticed that no where did I say that I was going to build the engine.

Besides, some blocks are cast and machined for wet sump only and vice versa. So next time you see this post towards the top of the forum just skip it.

Man, where Jamo when you need him.

j

[vxurazz]

Thanks Russ for the HELPFUL reply.

j

[computerworks]

Suomien, cdnus...

You have both made your last posts on this thread.

...not a good show of attitude.

thanks
ron
ClubCobra Moderator

[Keithc8]

The Pond, Shelby and Genesis can all be made to work with a dry sump set up. You can also run an external oil pump and still have the engine a wet sump. We have worked with Billet Fabrication and Titan oil pans on some nice stuff as well as Charlies oil pans on some of the Super Stock engine which have to be wet sump.
We run dry sump stuff on our circle track Dirt Late Model because of the rpms and the way the car is slung around the track. Because of the length of the races, RPM and HP of the engine this is also the only way to get the oil to run cool enough. We use an external oil cooler to help with this as well.
In most Cobra applications unless it was all out road racing a good wet sump oil pan and pump with the oil cooler works pretty good.
You have several differnet pumps and tanks that you can choose from for your engine. Good luck, Keith Craft

[Suomien]

I picked this up at Columbus a few years ago.

According to documents I've seen it was used on the GT40's with the 427 tunnelports for a while.

The suggestions above regarding Dailey pans and Titan etc, all fail to tell you the cost of those options. Last I heard Dailey was wanting close to $10K just for the pan, and Titan isn't the cheapest option either.

If you want value for your buck look up Armando pans.

I don't understand why my answering his question was such a bug in peoples' collars...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Suomien

I don't understand why my answering his question was such a bug in peoples' collars...

It's the economy -- it's got everyone on edge.

vxurazz -- come on over to the Ford FE forum. We love to talk dry sumps there. www.fordfe.com

[CobraEd]

I always wondered about dry sump oiling at high rpm. With ZERO splashing from the pan all you get to the cylinder bores and rings is the small amount of oil that comes out of the crank. Also, oil is used to cool the pistons by splashing up underneath them. You would think the engine would seize up right away with such a small amount of oil at the pistons and rings.

Obviously they don't sieze up, so I must have missed something here. But I am still puzzled.


.

[Ron61]

Ed,

I am no expert on any engine but my last two big block high performance engines came from the factory with a pan baffle over the top of the pan to keep oil from splashing on the crank. Also a friend of mine that races in the SCCA has used a dry sump for the past 4 years and never had any problem. K.C. or one of the FE people would be able to explain it to you.

Ron

[CobraEd]

I realize it is not a problem because it works, I just can't rationalize it though.

.

[Barry_R]

The oil that lubricates the pistons and cylinders is what is sprayed out of the crank. You would be amazed to see how much oil is flung off of a crank at high RPM. The stuff in the pan is not the real lube supply for the parts - its just the reservoir for the oil pump. Moving the reservoir outside of the block - dry sump - is simply a better way to keep it under control and away from the spinning bits.

[Jerry Clayton]

Just remember that except for a very limited amount of oil fed to the rocker assys that all the oil pumped into the oil system goes out the bearing clearances----the rod side clearance can kill an engine quicker than almost any thing else---it controls the flow of oil thru the rod bearings and the slinging uponto the walls, pistons and pins

[Barry_R]

Rod side clearance is always much larger than the bearing clearance - and thus does not control or limit oil movement through the engine. It will to a certain extent change the spray pattern of oil from the bearings into the crankcase.

[vxurazz]

While I dont plan to make a living at it...I would like to race the car from time to time.

I had the chance to really look over a cobra this past weekend and it had a
small block, and the bottom of the oil pan seemed to be around 4 or so inches off the ground....which leads me to..

I have a job that requires me to move every couple of years, and you never know what road conditions will be like. If I lived in the same place from year to year I could learn where I could and couldn't go....and the town I'm located now, the roads suck, to put it nicely. And it seems that speed bumps are dependent on how the road construction team feels that day about how much asphalt they want to use.

So it just seemed like 1 avenue to fix day to day driving and clearance issues and that road racing the car is a deffinate.

j

[RICK LAKE]

vxurazz J there are a couple of things you can do to have both the car for track and street. The easiest is 2 sets of tires. 15" tall tires for the street with a higher side wall size like a 70 or 78 series. For the track you are looking at 17"-18" tires with a 35 series side wall. This will raise and lower the car about 2". That should clear any high center street in your town. If you wan the car to really handle better, you will be changing the spring and shock package also. I guess the dry sump thing has been answered. Avivad sells a complete system for the small and big block ford motors. You can get brackets, pumps,tanks, pans, and breathers for your car. They just started maken the correct looking tank that goes in the R/S fender area with the filling cap coming through the body. You may also need an vacuum pump when you go dry sump to get the most out of the system. You need about 8-10 psi vacuum in the motor. With the dry system you will get about another 20-30 HP. The motor will be better oil supplied for high G turns. Rick L. Ps If you don't mind the wet sump system, add a accusump to the oiling system with a 3 quart tank. This will maintain oil pressure on high G turns and work as a per oiler before starting the motor every time. 80% of motor wear is at startup. I run this added system on my car. Has saved the motor twice with rocker failures.

[vxurazz]

Russ,

I sent Mr. Dailey an email and informed him on what I was looking for. Maybe we could talk him into a "prototype." I'll let you know what he says when I get a response.

J