'66 Side Oiler, My Barn Find and Build

[elmariachi]

This is a continuation of my first thread, posted here.

Heeding everyone's advice in that thread I abandoned the idea of trying to find a vintage block worth rebuilding and as a result had been discussing a Pond 482 with Keith while waiting on my car kit to arrive. Then, I received a call from a guy in South Texas that said he had an original standard bore side oiler in a barn and if I wanted it he'd make me a deal. So I took a Saturday stroll over to San Antonio to have a look. I got there and sure enough, a red barn with Holstein milk cows roaming around. And there in the barn, neatly arranged on a table, was a fully disassembled, very unmolested, standard bore '66 side oiler (6B11 date code), a pair of pristine MR heads (with matching same day date codes), and the balance of a fully disassembled motor including an absolutely beautiful $ forged steel crank. Seems that the farmer also owned a machine shop in SA and some guy rolled in back in 1975 with this engine, supposedly taken from his Galaxie at less than 100k miles, along with a couple boxes full of new parts. He wanted the engine disassembled, fully checked over and then built up. In the boxes were two sets of NOS FoMoCo pistons (one set of domed and one set of 12.5:1 pop-ups), a new Crane cam, various bearings, rings etc. The machinist checked and measured everything and waited for the guy to return for further build instructions. He never came back. Ever. So for thirty years it sat on a pallet in the shop, oiled down and covered. Recently he got out of the business and so the engine and parts were moved to his barn. We measured the bore with a bore gauge, noting that it was very close to standard. We talked a while about what it might need, swapped side oiler stories and after a little haggling, he made me a deal I couldn't refuse. I tried to refuse, but I couldn't do it. The same guy that loves a vintage '52 Fender Telecaster through a tube amplifier, old Rifleman episodes and Betty Page just couldn't say no.

Thus having abandoned nearly everyone's advice I brought the whole load home and started going through it. After getting the block on the stand, we found another code stamped on it (6J19D), which I would assume is the assembly or production line date. We also found what appeared to be a VIN stamped on another boss and so I ran it on www.decodethis.com and amazingly, up popped a 1967 R-code Galaxie 500, 425HP, dual quad, produced in Wayne, IN. I have since had the VIN run by a buddy with access to 50-state DMVs but we didn't get any hits on living automobiles.

I took the block, heads and internals to a local guy who is known for his race engines and has some verifiable FE experience. The block, heads, crank and C6AE-E LeMans rods all passed the mag check and the block passed a pressure test. The block is just as we measured in the barn...standard bore with 7 cylinders coming in around .003-.005 over and one cylinder a bit further out at .008. He's going to start in on rebuilding and porting the heads and give me some measurements from which to order some pistons and rings.

My plan is to run this car in the Big Bend Open Road Race held annually in West Texas, maybe some days around the local track and otherwise just run it and have fun. Along with the modified heads I plan to run a Sidewinder intake with a suitable single carb. I'd like a little bit of cam with some good mid-range pull and top-end RPM. I have read that the profile of the original AA cam might be suitable, as well as the Comp 294. This will be mated to a TKO 600 with a .64 5th gear and probably a 3.50 rear end. That should let me run in the 130MPH road race class without tearing stuff up.

As much as I'd like to stroke it, I think this block deserves to be brought back to life as a simple 427 with a little cam and some increased breathing room. If I get real bold maybe I'll slap the R-code dual 4-barrels back on it. Keith has agreed to supply all my parts so I am sure he'll have some sound advice. Any input/advice on final boring, camshaft selection etc, or any general comments appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

[ERA713]

Sounds like a real nice find.I tried the .64 tko in my era with 331 & it was way to tall.had to change to the .82.just a heads up. good luck with the build.

[PANAVIA]

very *very* cool find.

[Rick Parker]

Be careful of the original sodium filled valve stems.

[RICK LAKE]

elmariachi Jim Don't do it. If you are going to race, build a new motor with BBC rods in an aftermarket block. If the motor is that good, it's worth 5 times what you paided for it. It's 40+ years old. While a don't agree with some of the PRO builders on either the FE Forum or here, metal fatige is real. Buy a stroker kit from Barry R if you want to stay with that block. The BBC bearing are wider, you are getting a better oiling for the crank and bearings. You can get custom .010" over pistons and drop your compression. If you are going to be on the street, buy a set of scat or Eagle rods and use them instead of the stock rods. They weight about 80 grams less. You can do every test possible but it doesn't show internal cracks in the parts, ONLY externals. Jim I have a 428 motor as a spare motor for my car. This motor is for street only no racing. Get a richmond super street trans if you are going to race. it's stronger than the TKO 600 and easier to install a oil cooler and sprayer for the gears. It has the same gear ratio. If this is a speed race, 3.07 gearing in the rearend. IMO the 2.88 is weaker in carrier that a 3.07. Over build the car. Chromemoly stub shafts in the rearend, coolers for the motor, trans and rearend if this is a high speed long race. Air ducts for the brakes, front and rear. Limit your motor to 6,000 rpms. Accusump 3 quart as a per oiler of the motor and running high speed turns, pulling a 1/2 G or more. Dry Sump is not out of the question. My next motor is getting this. Build a race car you can drive on the street, not a street car you want to go high speed running. The springs and shocks are way different between the two. On the street, 275 front springs, racing 400+ and QA1 shock with both adjustments for rebound and dampening. Even with ARP bolts in all the parts, limit the motor to 6,200 max. This will give it a longer life. No .003" on the rods and mains on clearances if you are racing. Pre Heat the motor before racing also,to warm up all the parts easy. Good luck Rick L.

[Fordzilla]

Cool Find!

[Chaplin]

very, very cool find. Stories like that always make you wonder what happened to the guy that dropped it off.

[HI Cobra]

Talk about being in the right place at the right time - and doing the right thing.
I don't think you will regret that purchase!

[FFR428]

I agree very cool find!! Not many deals out there like that. What is odd is a 66/Feb/11 casting date code and a 66/Sept/19 machine date 7 months later. And used in the 67 R code. Makes you wonder if they stashed the blocks away for the 67 R code Galaxies? Well anyway great score and enjoy!!

[Excaliber]

I'd build it, just the way it is, no changes on the parts. My only concern would be how to lower the compression ratio to a reasonable level (pump gas) because I prefer a street motor. If your going to race it hard, Rick L. has some solid advice. To lower the compression run the flat tops AND a really thick head gasket. I had the 12.5 to 1 pop up's originally in my motor, a real pain in the butt trying to keep the octane high enough or having to reduce the timing to keep knock away. So I had no choice but to go with new pistons.

MAJOR EDIT:
It appears you ARE going to order new pistons after all, have the block bored to clean it up I guess is why. When I ordered my new pistons I specifically had them designed to come all the way up to the TOP of the block (zero deck). For 'quench' purposes, to help control detonation and improve combustion chamber burn in general. Seem's to me the standard piston deck height measurement is something like as much a .030 below deck, which is so low there is no quench factor at all. Something they didn't worry about or didn't know about in '65, high octane fuel was readily available after all. I also had the pistons dished just the right amount to get 9.6 to 1 compression. Of course this all meant I had to order CUSTOM made pistons as I could not find any 'stock' or 'aftermarket' pistons that were designed for what I wanted to do.

[trularin]

Some people are lucky in love, others in BBFs.



Congrats!

[427 S/O]

Don't forget the oil modifications, I see the oil filter mounting plate is stock!. Pick up a Steve Christ ' how to rebuild a ford big block, it has detailed instructions on oil mods and other valuable info.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by HI Cobra

Talk about being in the right place at the right time - and doing the right thing.
I don't think you will regret that purchase!

I NEVER get lucky on deals like this, ever, so I am so thrilled I can't stand it.

I stopped off at the machine shop to look at the disassembled heads today and holy cow...they look brand new after being magged and cleaned up. Not a single mark of wear on them. The seats and the combustion chambers are absolutely 100% perfect. I'll post pics later. Should I port and polish them or keep them stock?

Originally Posted by Excaliber

MAJOR EDIT:It appears you ARE going to order new pistons after all, have the block bored to clean it up I guess is why.

Yep new pistons from Keith, gotta call them tomorrow to figure out displacement and place an order. I am taking the block to 4.250 because of that renegade #6 cylinder with .008 taper.

Originally Posted by 427 S/O

Don't forget the oil modifications, I see the oil filter mounting plate is stock!. Pick up a Steve Christ ' how to rebuild a ford big block, it has detailed instructions on oil mods and other valuable info.

I've got Steve's book and you're right, its invaluable. After those pics were taken I deburred the block and did the oiling mods in the main saddles and it turned out great. The shop is doing the filter mount mods for me.

Sorry Rick, I am not going to run this one hard enough to warrant some of what you are suggesting, but you make good points and its much appreciated. I still want to have that phone call soon to catch up though.

[jshel1]

Jim,

Glowing reviews from the panel of experts... all you need now is a chassis/replica worthy of that precious gemstone.

[Snakebit]

The guy that dropped it off could have died and no one knew that he took the engine to a machine shop. I had a friend of mine that was restoring a 62 vette. When he took some parts to the chrome shop he inquired about a few parts that he was missing. The guy at the chrome shop had the parts he was looking for. The same senero, the parts were dropped off a few years prior and the customer never came back to pick them up. The shop owner told my friend of a guy thay had a 67 vette with over a $100 grand invested in it. He died and the wife sold it for 25 grand! Like they say, being at the right time and the right place.

[ng8264723]

I WOULD NEVER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A WIDOW TO GET A DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I would educate her on what the car was worth and offer a fair price

[Snakebit]

The person buying the vette might not have had a clue either! **** happens.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by FFR428

I agree very cool find!! Not many deals out there like that. What is odd is a 66/Feb/11 casting date code and a 66/Sept/19 machine date 7 months later. And used in the 67 R code. Makes you wonder if they stashed the blocks away for the 67 R code Galaxies? Well anyway great score and enjoy!!

Do you think the later stamp date is a machine date versus an assembly date? Were these engines assembled in Dearborn as well or at the assembly plant? If the block was cast in Dearborn and the engine/car assembled in Wayne, I would expect some sort of lapse between the dates. Especially given that Ford would have shut down for model change retooling around mid-April, resuming production in October for the '67 year model.

[elmariachi]

Posting details of my engine build is like diving into your swimming pool when you know there's a snake in it, but here goes:

- Block, heads, $ crank, rods all mag'd out perfecto. I am not sure I am going to use the C6AE-E Lemans rods, though they are brand spanking new. Block will be taken to 4.250, new Diamond 10:1 pistons on the way from Keith Craft (those folks are excellent to do business.)

- Based on feedback from Keith, info/feedback here on CC and talking to Comp, I am going with the 294S solid flat tappet setup, 248/248/.605 lift.

- My MR heads are so pristine I hate cutting on them, but I think we are going to install hard seats and port and polish them unless someone tells me conclusively they've done it and not seen a worthwhile gain. Also using all new valves/parts and either T&D or Erson roller rockers.

- Sidewinder intake with a Barry Grant 850.

Fire away.

[ng8264723]

DO NOT CUT THOSE HEADS FOR HARDENED SEATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not necessary and will severly devalue them
chris