10k in pocket. New block or EFI ?

[FUNFER2]

Thank you old dog, I appreciate your help.

[FUNFER2]

After some major thinking, I believe the motor is the way to go and I'll save some money in my "Toy Fund", for the EFI. The foundation is the most important and I've always wanted a aluminum side oiler.

I'll have to think if I'll pay the extra labor for Keith to assemble the short block or my two mechanic friends. They build the sprint car engine's and, my 428. I have never seen a bad issue with the motors they build and I trust them. They are two of the best professional mechanics on the planet.

If I have Keith build the short block, I of course want it balanced, should I buy a new clutch and have him balance the motor with the clutch on ?

With this engine, which clutch would you choose ?
Should I buy a aluminum flywheel and which brand ?
What about a balancer as I have just a stock one ?

A lot of you are using a hydraulic roller cam, what lift, duration and lobe sep. would you use ? I want the motor to sound RADICAL, with a pretty rough idle but, without hurting the performance.

Any other advise on a stroker Pond block ?
Stage two heads from Keith ?

I'll call him tomorrow and get his advise on the entire engine as I trust, and like him. So, any other advise, opinion's, something for me to think about ect... will be great. This has been a lot of fun talking with all of you.



Thanks,

[olddog]

I would think the 428 would sell quicker and for more if a person could see/hear it run. Video and pictures would be a 2nd and 3rd place alternative. So I would get that advertised ASAP, before robbing it of parts.

It is not necessarily that you should choose between KC and your mechanic friends based on quality of work. I have noticed that KC can usually sell you a part already machined and ready to go for the same money most places well sell you the part and then you have to pay for machining. KC also has in stock what others will take 6 weeks to order. All these things say to me that he does enough volume of work that he has both buying power and his shop is set up to do things at volumes that he actually spends less time doing the work, as compared to a small shop doing things one at a time. In short KC may save you money over others, and his reputation on quality work is excellent.

Also consider this. KC stands behind his engines better than most. The more complete an engine he builds the more he can stand behind. Remember him saying he liked to dyno the engine. That lets him verify there are no problems, and could save you from an impropper start up.

Now if you have the skills to build it yourself, you could save money. Not as likely if you still have to pay someone else to build it.

I would also think the closer you stay to a standard package KC builds on a regular basis, the less extra work KC will have to do. That can save money. Cleaning up your old parts to be re-used will also save money. The more you can do the better.

[FUNFER2]

You may be right. And as busy as Chad & Pat are, and my health, maybe I should leave it up to Keith. That a good idea old dog (you must be a wise OLD DOG) lol

All of this has to wait until my other house sells. It will be on the market this week. With all my other hobbies, my "Toy Fund"....is low. In fact, check out the 1/4 scale RC sprint car I rebuilt for Chad. Their a blast to race.

A video and all my photo's will be helpful when I'm ready to sell my bottom end. I do have a short clip when we were on the Hot Rod Power Tour last year. I did not feel well so Chad & Pat drove her home.

I have a "Mickey Thompson" aluminum connecting rod that I'm going to mount to my roll bar and attaché my camcorder, and a mic to go under that dash for noise/wind control. Anyway, below is the vid. Scroll down a bit and you'll see the Cobra and click on it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/427HISS

Here are some photo's also.

http://www.motortopia.com/garage/cars/427HISS

[olddog]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

You may be right. And as busy as Chad & Pat are, and my health, maybe I should leave it up to Keith. That a good idea old dog (you must be a wise OLD DOG) lol

An old dog that is all crippled up from getting hit by cars, learns to look both ways before he hobbles across the road.


I never buy the extra warrenty on store items. However you are starting to talk real money here. Having a guy like KC build it is not only buying quality and skill, but a friend who will stand with you if things go south.

If I were building a factory iron engine I would assemble it myself. I've done a few, read a lot, and have an inflated opinion of my skills. If I was going to build an aluminum FE and be spending those type of $$$$, I would hire a professional. Too much at stake to gamble with ego.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by olddog

I've done a few, read a lot, and have an inflated opinion of my skills.

Doesn't that describe us all! Good one OD.

Steve

[FUNFER2]

Hey Keith, I used to have the Performer RPM intake and switched to the Vic Jr. intake, have you compared and seen a difference between the two in HP/TQ ?

[Keithc8]

The Performer RPM intake will make more torque down low below 3500 rpms or so and the Victor intake will make more horsepower above 4500 rpms. Since you know that the Victor will fit under the hood I would go that way. It will not fit under the hood on some cars and that is why we use the Performer RPM a lot. If you are more concerned about HP and do not mind giving up a little down low and do not plan on driving a lot at 1500 rpms the Victor should be fine. With what you are talking about building you should see about 620HP or so.
Sorry I have been out a bit the last few days but feel free to call me at the shop. Thanks, Keith Craft

[FUNFER2]

Just had a nice conversation with Keith. We pretty much have a engine part idea, but now about the cam selection ?

He mentioned for a solid roller, that a few of the cam makers have oil holes in the lifters and that he has not heard any bad results in his engine's. I don't know what specs, these were. He also said my cam, rocker shaft and rockers may would work, unless I have a solid roller. Hum.....?

With the Hydraulic Rollers, one idea was a 252/260 (or so) and 630 lift with maybe a 110 lobe sep. I now have 252/260, 600 lift and 112 lobe sep.

Any thoughts ?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

With the Hydraulic Rollers, one idea was a 252/260 (or so) and 630 lift with maybe a 110 lobe sep. I now have 252/260, 600 lift and 112 lobe sep.

Any thoughts ?

It will be very lumpy and may not make sense with your future Dynatek FI setup. Smaller is better with Webers or Dynatek.

I think my Crower hydraulic roller is just about perfect for me, right down the middle with a 112 LSA, 245/252 duration and .630/.651 lift. Not too small, not too big, for a 482.

In the end, what will make you happy is the best solution.

[FUNFER2]

I haven't decided on the Dynatek yet. It may be too expensive when it's all done ? 8k or so,....is a lot of $$$

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It will be very lumpy and may not make sense with your future Dynatek FI setup. Smaller is better with Webers or Dynatek.

I think my Crower hydraulic roller is just about perfect for me, right down the middle with a 112 LSA, 245/252 duration and .630/.651 lift. Not too small, not too big, for a 482.

In the end, what will make you happy is the best solution.

I'd have to look at mine, but I don't think you want any over lap with EFI

E

[FUNFER2]

Header's- are 2" but, look at the attached photo's. Who ever made these, they squeezed the side's inward, like they put them in a vise ? Was this done for bolt clearance ?

How big of a issue is this ?

J-tubes are 1-3/4"
Collectors are 3"
Muffler housing are 4"
Turn outs are 3"

Are the J-tubes also too small and restrictive ?

Man, it looks like I'll have to spend even more, on new headers, flange,
J-tubes, collectors, mufflers, housing, turn outs,....... the entire exhaust system, before Keiths 482.

[FUNFER2]

Some up dates. I've heard from people that the reason for the squeezed sides is to match the square bores of the head so, no worries there.

I'm going to keep my headers but, build/buy new 2" J-tubes, collectors 4" muffler housings, 3" mufflers and tips.

The KC engine is a go, the EFI sadly no. By the time I bought both and completely running, the cost of apx. $15,000- $20,000, is too high for me.

But I know I'll be very happy with a nasty, high HP/TQ Keith Craft aluminum 427 side oiler.

Now we can talk details.

[FUNFER2]

Ok, big decision.

Sell my 428 as a short block, and transfer all remaining parts to the KC 482 ?

Or


Sell it ready to run, then use that money to purchase new parts.

I like bling (as kids call it today) so the Edelbrock "Endurashine" products would be nice. The RPM intake and water pump, new MSD distributor wires ect. Pentroof valve covers (which mine are new and not in the pics) Carb., pulleys, timing chain & cover, ect,.....Brand new everything.

Like I said before, I will take pictures and video of the engine running, recent dyno results and list all machining and parts. The problem is, I really have no idea on how much someone would pay, therefore, no idea on how much to ask. Any ideas ?

Which way would be best and not loose money for the 482 build ?

Thanks,

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Ok, big decision.

Sell my 428 as a short block, and transfer all remaining parts to the KC 482 ?

Or


Sell it ready to run, then use that money to purchase new parts.

I like bling (as kids call it today) so the Edelbrock "Endurashine" products would be nice. The RPM intake and water pump, new MSD distributor wires ect. Pentroof valve covers (which mine are new and not in the pics) Carb., pulleys, timing chain & cover, ect,.....Brand new everything.

Like I said before, I will take pictures and video of the engine running, recent dyno results and list all machining and parts. The problem is, I really have no idea on how much someone would pay, therefore, no idea on how much to ask. Any ideas ?

Which way would be best and not loose money for the 482 build ?

Thanks,

Kevin,

The best bet from a performance point of view would be to sell your current motor complete as a "short long block" (ie remove your accessories - water pump, alternator, pulleys, distributor, etc), include your intake in the sale and let Keith pick the best intake, heads, etc. This way you get a well matched combination of induction, heads, cam, etc. but you don't waste your $$ repurchasing your accessories (looks like you already good components there). If you do this, make sure Keith either recurves or gives you the specs to recurve your MSD distributor and you should be all set. The other thing you might consider if you are planning on running your 482 motor on the street is to replace the pulleys with a set that will OVERDIRVE the water pump. This will give you more collant circulation at idle and low speed which will help you avoid any cooling problems. You will give up a little bit of top end HP this way but I doubt that you'll miss it with a 482ci motor in a cobra on the street.

What do you currently have in terms of an alternator? SUggest you put on a 100A unit if you intend to go to EFI later (this may require upgrade of your primary wiring at the same time which is not a bit deal).

- Fred

[FUNFER2]

Hey Fred,
Keith likes the RPM manifold only because Vic Jr.'s won't fit under the hood of most cobras. It does rub my paint a bit. I would not mind buying a new RPM intake from Edelbrock with the ENDURASHINE,....it looks great. (don't know if they have it on the Vic Jr.)Keith did state that my Jr. would be fine. Give up a little TQ for better HP up top.

The overdrive pulley is a good idea, with the high temps here in Ne. In the summer, I change to a 160 degree thermostat.

I do have a 100 amp alt. Sometimes with the old alt., after the car was warmed up or after getting on it, if I stopped for gas, she did not want to start so, I did buy a retard box for start up's but, haven't installed it yet.

[Great Asp]

Have Keith start from scratch, no worries or $$$'s on compatibility.

Sell the old motor!

E

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Hey Fred,
Keith likes the RPM manifold only because Vic Jr.'s won't fit under the hood of most cobras. It does rub my paint a bit. I would not mind buying a new RPM intake from Edelbrock with the ENDURASHINE,....it looks great. (don't know if they have it on the Vic Jr.)Keith did state that my Jr. would be fine. Give up a little TQ for better HP up top.

The overdrive pulley is a good idea, with the high temps here in Ne. In the summer, I change to a 160 degree thermostat.

I do have a 100 amp alt. Sometimes with the old alt., after the car was warmed up or after getting on it, if I stopped for gas, she did not want to start so, I did buy a retard box for start up's but, haven't installed it yet.

Kevin,

Vic Jr. is a fairly high RPM intake for street use. May not be such a bad idea to let Keith swap that out for you. Whatever you do, you'll need to decide before Keith start building your engine. If he is using your existing intake for example, it may cause him to pick a different CAM then if he is choosing all of the parts.

- Fred

[undy]

Hey Kev,

You need one of these on the new Pond 482, forget the Victor or RPM.. The setup has the same hood clearance as the RPM or the BT 427MR 1x4. Keith keeps the carbs (600 Holleys), manifold (Tunnel Wedge), linkage and air cleaner in stock. You can't beat his pricing either. IMO it has near the kule factor of the stack EFI, at a third the cost. Sorry about the excessive fuel system bling, the repro stock fuel 2x4 fuel log and plumbing doesn't flow enough for a healthy 482.

The carbs pictured aren't the 600 Holleys. They're a set of custom Trick Fuel built, 4160 based units with 750 HP center sections and replaceable secondary jets (plus a multitude of other "race carb" tricks). They were built expressly for Keith's Pond 482s (mine actually) with his "typical" 600+ HP hydraulic roller. They cost quite a bit more than the 600 Holleys though..



Ya can't have too many carbs.
Top it off With a K&N and a Blue Thunder cast aluminum dual quad air cleaner



Dave