Carb(s), not EFI: right?

[aks801]

Target: build a 427 SC replica with FE big block. Use for cruising, backroad blasting.
Me: minimal motor experience (used to have a '66 Mustang, rebuilt the starter, did some refinishing, some radiator work, no engine internals).
The look: want the car to have a "period correct" look as much as possible. Most likely will be a 390, or a 428, with new aluminum heads and intake.
Question: carb or fuel injection?

I liked the idea of tuning with a laptop, dowloading fuel maps, that kind of thing. Like the idea of using EFI stacks for that Weber look (except it is really expensive!).

But... I really want that traditional look, and it seems that a carb is the way to go. After doing a lot of reads of old threads, and seeing numerous engine pulls on dynos, everything talks about using carbs. I may get a book on Holleys so I can start learnin' up on what I'd be dealing with.

Am I going the right direction by selecting a carbed engine?

[bobcowan]

Carb vs. EFI is really a personal choice. Both have their advantages.

There's a couple of EFI kits on the market that look just likie carbs, both 4 barrel Holley and Webber downdrafts.

Yes, Virginia, you can have it all.

[Ronbo]

You can check my gallery to see the Mass-Flo dyno results, about 40+ hp gain over Kieth's carb equiped 482.

Except for the fuel rails it looks like a carb setup.

Also since it's Mass air based, it's a lot tighter control than MAP based systems.

www.massfloefi.com

[RICK LAKE]

aks801 Alan the carbs, throttlebodies, stacked system, retro systems all have there good and bad about them. I run a single 1,200 cfm throttle body on my car. The next motor I am building will have TWM 58mm setup, which I already have. You said you want to be original, that would but you with a Carb. IMO in the low and middle rpm range, a good FI system works better,gets better gas mileage, and responds in high "G" turns with out gas wash in the cylinders. Top end and speed a carb wins. You didn't say the magic question? How much power are you looking for?The trans you want to run, and rearend gearing. No body has done a carb test compared to a TWM or Dynatek 48mm throttlebodies. The webers do not flow the same as the other 2 and depending on motor size, they run out of cfm in the low 6,000 rpm range. This is also not a bad thing. You also want to e-mail Dean Lampe. He has been running Dynatek on his stroker GT-40 for 2 years. He started with webers and crossed over to the dark side, FI. You have a private e-mail. Rick L.

[aks801]

Looks like I have more homework to do then! That's cool.

A lot of why I want to do one of these crazy cars just has to do with "feel", with passion. I really want a total throwback to that era. If that can be achieved and still use the fuel injection, then I may go that route. The whole tinkering with the carbs thing might be part of what I want the experience to be, though.

I'm thinking HP and torque should both be in the 450-500 range. From all I've read, that should certainly be achievable and would give this thing PLENTY of grunt. Transmission will be a wide-ratio Top Loader, case closed. No idea on the rear-end gearing: mid 3's?

I'm committed to the FE for this project, I know that much! Thanks to all.

[jhv48]

Holley carb and manifold: $700.00

Looks correct, fun to tinker with, hauls ass!

Fuel injection: $6000.

Better mileage (BFD), looks high tech, needs computer to setup, wiring harness is 10 times more complicated, upgraded fuel delivery system needed. Totally new age.

You state that you are looking to be reasonably period correct with that traditional appearance.

Carb is your answer!

[aks801]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Holley carb and manifold: $700.00

Looks correct, fun to tinker with, hauls ass!

Fuel injection: $6000.

Better mileage (BFD), looks high tech, needs computer to setup, wiring harness is 10 times more complicated, upgraded fuel delivery system needed. Totally new age.

You state that you are looking to be reasonably period correct with that traditional appearance.

Carb is your answer!

Winner winner, chicken dinner! I like how you think. I'll still check out the fuelie systems just to understand the universe of options, but I have to be honest in that I'm definitely leaning toward the carbs.

[undy]

Carbs can be pretty too

[aks801]

Originally Posted by undy

Carbs can be pretty too

Holy gazeebers!!! Ok, tell me what I'm looking at, and allow me to display my ignorance out in the open. Dual Holley double pumpers w/ vacuum secondaries (whatever the heck that means)? What kind of intake manifold?

That is some nice motor pron there.

[SP01715]

The owner of Hillbank had a GT40 with a carb Roush motor and switched to EFI. He liked the carb motor better and switched back to a carb motor. I also drove a SPF MK111 with a 427 stroker with an EFI stack system, and my carb Roush motor pulled alot harder than the EFI motor. The EFI motor seemed to have a more controlled response through the RPM range, but it did not have the same kick in the pants feel as my carb motor.

EFI definitely has some benefits. I run EFI motors in my boats because of easy starting, and the computer being able to adjust for DA changes. I will always run EFI motors in my High performance boats, but for the Cobra I don't think it's worth the cost IMO. I also don't drive my Cobra in different elevations or drastic temperature changes though, so it is a different animal.

If possible I would drive both. I was set to drop an extra 10k on a roush IR motor until I compared the two in the real world. Kind of the same way I changed my mind about going with a BB...

[olddog]

This is a video on a Boss EFI system. It is a throttle body system designed to look just like a carb. I just saw this on the net. Never seen one in person or talked to anyone who has. I have no financial interest.

http://enginefactory.com/Video_Techn...EFI_092908.wmv

[undy]

Originally Posted by aks801

Holy gazeebers!!! Ok, tell me what I'm looking at, and allow me to display my ignorance out in the open. Dual Holley double pumpers w/ vacuum secondaries (whatever the heck that means)? What kind of intake manifold?

That is some nice motor pron there.

It's a Dove Tunnel Wedge 2x4 intake with a couple pro-built Trick Fuel, Survival Motorsports sourced 750 vacuum secondary carbs w/ adjustable bleeds, removable secondary jets and a host of custom carb add-ons. It took me around $3K total for everything needed, intake, filter, carbs, gaskets, linkage, fuel system etc.. The labor was provided free by me

Dave

[Ronbo]

Take a look at the Mass-flo system.

It's based off the stock Ford EFI which has logged billions of hours of trouble-free operation in millions of street cars. Not to mention at least doubling the life of the engine.

There's a reason Detroit (and every other car builder) runs these systems, they work.

No computer needed either, just a paper clip to jumper the EEC into self-test.

Carbs suck, and stacks are eye wash.

[aks801]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Take a look at the Mass-flo system.

It's based off the stock Ford EFI which has logged billions of hours of trouble-free operation in millions of street cars. Not to mention at least doubling the life of the engine.

There's a reason Detroit (and every other car builder) runs these systems, they work.

No computer needed either, just a paper clip to jumper the EEC into self-test.

Carbs suck, and stacks are eye wash.

Yeah, I hear you about how fuel injection has been adopted by everyone, it certainly represents progress especially for mass-produced autos. But I think I MAY want to pick and choose which advances in technology I take advantage of in this car. I'll take the more modern head design and metal composition, may end up going with EFI. But in a lot of areas I want this to be the throwback to the 60's.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "carbs suck" (although that it is literal description of their function), but I sure don't have the experience level that I think you possess so I'm not going to try and argue the point! Thanks for your views though, this is all helping me at this point.

[Ronbo]

While a carb may seem simple it's anything but. When you have to track down what's causing that stumble at 3800RPM and finally give up out of frustration because of the pump cams, jets, squiters, vacuum springs, timing advance curves, vacuum pots, ect., ect.

Yep, carbs suck. So does messing around with fuel maps and other stuff the majority of these "performance" EFI systems need. Swearing at the carburetor that's dumping fuel out the exhaust is not a memory I care to re-live.