1974 cast date - emissions?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RAO-3

I have been trying to find good pictures of them to compare to mine, but there seem to be few out there.

Here's a beautiful 428 service block, date coded 1974, no casting numbers, ribs on the side, full cobra jet webbing on the mains, currently residing in ERA732.

[RAO-3]

Hi Patrick - Leave it to you to come up with a pic. Do you happen to have a pic of the other side as well? My engine's up at ERA, and because of the way they had it situated, I could only get a pic of the side with the oil filter & fuel pump. Many, many thanks!

BTW I think I went with the same oil pan!

Ray

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RAO-3

Do you happen to have a pic of the other side as well?

The other side is not nearly as exciting. Remember that you can not tell a 428 from looking at the outside of the block. The driver's side (seen below) looks just like the other FEs (obviously no cross-bolting or a side oiler galley). Casting and other scratch marks are unreliable; sometimes they're there, sometimes they're not, sometimes the ones that are there fool you, and the date code only tells you the date, not what it is. The only way you can reliably tell if an FE is a 428 is to look on the inside. I might even go so far as to say the same rule almost/kinda holds true for a 427s since the cross-bolts could be aftermarket (or even super-glued on) a side galley might not be drilled, it's been sleeved nine times, etc.) You really have to look on the inside to be sure of anything in today's FE world. I chose this pic of the driver's side because it has a nice view of the block, you can see the oil filter connections over to your left (external filter & cooler on my block) and the motor mount. In 1965 or so Ford changed their FE blocks to have four holes for the motor mounts instead of two, and the newer motor mounts used three of them, but you could still use the older two bolts. ERA uses the older two bolt mounts (presumably because that will fit everything). For some reason there seems to be more threads on motor mount confusion than you would think and if you didn't know that you were supposed to use the old ones it would really throw you for a loop. I'm also including a pic of the engine when it was just sitting on the floor with the oil filter still attacahed. Again, there's just not that much that's interesting on the driver's side of a non-427 or sideoiler block. You really need to know stuff like this because you're going to have to tighten everything on your car after you've driven it for a while (and then periodically do it again, and again). I just had my car up in the air tightening stuff (including the motor mounts) a week or two ago. I have even been completely stranded (and had to limp home on other occasions) over nothing more than a loose bolt that was not easy to find, or that wasn't plainly in front of your nose. These are really very simple cars -- but having a big FE in them shakes everything. You just have to periodically tighten everything that you don't have safety wired. Take it from one who knows....

[undy]

Pat ...and don't forget the non-cross bolted 427 irrigation motors that have surfaced over the past several years. There's quite a few pics of them over on fordfe.com. Just because it's not cross bolted doesn't mean it's not a 427

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Pat ...and don't forget the non-cross bolted 427 irrigation motors that have surfaced over the past several years. There's quite a few pics of them over on fordfe.com. Just because it's not cross bolted doesn't mean it's not a 427

Yes, I had completely forgotten about those. If you told me your engine was a 427 and I put my head under the car and saw no cross bolts and no side galley, I would happily bet a C-Note that the engine was not a 427.

[undy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yes, I had completely forgotten about those. If you told me your engine was a 427 and I put my head under the car and saw no cross bolts and no side galley, I would happily bet a C-Note that the engine was not a 427.

Even with your re-discovered FE knowledge, law of probablity sez you'd probably be right. At least I wouldn't take your bet. They're rare birds fo-sho.. How's about diggin' us up a pic or two of 'em??

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Even with your re-discovered FE knowledge, law of probablity sez you'd probably be right. At least I wouldn't take your bet. They're rare birds fo-sho.. How's about diggin' us up a pic or two of 'em??

I remembered that Gessford did a 2-bolt 427 for Alan Casida and there was quite a bit of discussion on it. Yes it was a real 427, etc. Here is a pic. Funny thing, that page is not available on the Gessford site. Instead, if you go to Google and search for "Alan Casida's 427" it will give you the Gessford page and then you can click on the Google cache of it and see it that way. Here's one pic that I ripped:

[patrickt]

[RAO-3]

Thanks so much for the pictures. Let me ask this - are there any vertical ribs on the driver side of the block? From the pictures I did take, if I photoshop them, it looks like there are some ribs (maybe 3??) near the back - transmission - end. Also I think its a DIF block

Ray

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RAO-3

Thanks so much for the pictures. Let me ask this - are there any vertical ribs on the driver side of the block? From the pictures I did take, if I photoshop them, it looks like there are some ribs (maybe 3??) near the back - transmission - end. Also I think its a DIF block

Ray

Do they look like the three ribs that you can barely see in this shot of mine? (Starting to the right just above where the oil pan stops.)

[undy]

My Cobra originally came with a 428. It too was a "ribbed for pleasure" 1974 dated DIF service block. As the others, it had a the HD block webbing as the CJ or SCJ 428 blocks. Some of the 428 PI blocks did not have the HD webbing, some did.

Oh, thanks Pat .. for the pics and reminding me that the "two bolt main" 427s had the press-in versus screw-in freeze plugs. I'd almost forgot that tasty FE tid-bit.

[RAO-3]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Do they look like the three ribs that you can barely see in this shot of mine? (Starting to the right just above where the oil pan stops.)

Yes, I think so Patrick. When I get home I will see if I can post a pic or two that I shot when I was at ERA the other day, and try to show the ribs. They don't seem to be as obvious on the driver side of the block as they are on the passenger side.

-Ray

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RAO-3

They don't seem to be as obvious on the driver side of the block as they are on the passenger side.

There might be a dozen (or more) ribs on the passenger side, I think there's only three on the driver's side.

[RAO-3]

Originally Posted by patrickt

There might be a dozen (or more) ribs on the passenger side, I think there's only three on the driver's side.

That would seem to agree with my observation. Hope to get the pic posted later.

[RAO-3]

Here's the pic, the first is the 'normal' shot - can't make out the vertical lines; I brightened the pic quite a bit in the second shot to see the lines. Patrick, is this how your block looks? Two lines at the very back and one near the motor mount. Notice the similarities in the oil pan?

Yes I did go with the remote oil filter btw.

BTW in the background is ERA's display car.





-Ray

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RAO-3

Here's the pic, the first is the 'normal' shot - can't make out the vertical lines; I brightened the pic quite a bit in the second shot to see the lines. Patrick, is this how your block looks? Two lines at the very back and one near the motor mount. Notice the similarities in the oil pan?

Your block looks a little tidier than my block. Other than that it looks to be pretty much the same. What sort of internals did you go with?

[patrickt]

What bore increase did you go with? .030? How about stroke? I'm guessing you went with a SCAT crank, which one? How about the cam? What kind of specs on that?

[RAO-3]

It's been such a while that I need to pull out the paperwork to tell you the specifics of what went into the engine. Thinking about it, I ordered the motor over a year ago now. I did go with a relatively mild build, given my plan is to drive the car, not race it. As I recall it's .030 over.

-Ray

[patrickt]

OK, post the specs when you can find the sheet. I'm always interested in stuff like that. Maybe I'll take a couple shots of the driver's side of my block this morning and post them up. Sometimes staring at engine pics can help get you by until your car is delivered.

[patrickt]

Looking at your engine, this just popped in to my head. You'll need to "snug up" your intake manifold after a couple of hundred miles (you'll only have to do this once). You'll need to retorque it using your torque wrench and following the intake manifold bolt pattern. BUT, you won't be able to reach some of the bolts without a "crowfoot" on the end of your torque wrench. There are two ways to put the crowfoot on the end of the wrench -- straight up and down, and sideways. If you put the crowfoot on straight up and down then you will effectively change the reading of the torque wrench (giving you a false reading). If you put the crowfoot on at a right angle (sideways) the torque reading will continue to be accurate. How's that for an obscure FE factoid? Here's a pic of a crowfoot, just in case you didn't know what it was: