427 Ring Gear, OUT!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

BIG PROBLEM! I just counted the teeth on the flywheel, 152, which doesn't line up with ANY known flywheel, 427, 428, 429. I called Gessford Machine (those sure are some nice folks by the way) they confirmed it's an odd ball. The size is correct, 15.5" inches. Anyway, I ordered a 184 tooth all ready so I got my fingers crossed it will fit.

It's likely I've had the wrong ring gear all this time and THAT may account for the numerous starter problems I've had over the years?

I'm moving later next month, this is the worst possible time to be dealing with flywheel issues and a car that won't go.

So the teeth were just "spread apart" more than they should have been? How did you manage that?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Dang, where is RodKnock when you need him?

Never fear RodKnock is here! So, there's two CC guys using Shakespearean lingo. Man, the IQ on CC has doubled.

I've got really nothing to offer since flywheels and starters are WAY above my paygrade. Now, give me a good "What's the best oil filter?" and/or "Which weight oil should I use?" thread and I'm there.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I've got really nothing to offer since flywheels and starters are WAY above my paygrade. Now, give me a good "What's the best oil filter?" and/or "Which weight oil should I use?" thread and I'm there.

Well now that I know Ernie had a "spread bore" flywheel all this time I'm going to go fetch my remote starter swtich back out of the trash.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I don't think you know how to work anything except a keyboard.

As Bill would say "Must Resist Typing"... Nah, that's WAY too easy. I'll move along before Ron gets mad at me.

Ernie, where on the Mainland are you moving to? Are you going to come hangout with the Silicon Valley Chapter of the Bay Area Cobra Club?

[patrickt]

Ernie, should you want to replace that flywheel with another 152 tooth job, here's a pretty nice one. Granted, it's a wee-bit heavy....
http://www.eautoworks.com/product-Ce...rce-216870.htm

[ERA Chas]

Really helpful. "Not recommended for street use".
9,136.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Really helpful. "Not recommended for street use".
9,136.

Not to mention being 61lbs. Chas, where's your sense of humor?

[Rick Parker]

Ernie... Didn't you go through this a few years ago too, may be 4?

[Excaliber]

Oh yeah! I been having nothing but flywheel and starter trouble for years now!
Between the extreme base timing and the incorrect flywheel tooth count, and lately "bumping" the starter as well, I don't know how I've managed.

By golly, I think I may have got to the bottom of it this time. It's a Hays 12-240, 40 lb wheel and sure enough, they specifiy a 184 count. Well it CAME with a 152 tooth count originally and it worked, mostly, kind of, so I just followed the previous owner's lead on that. Until I finally burned out on replacing starters, which I got so good at I could change one out in nothing flat...

The move? Looks like Ashland/Medford, Oregon area. I'll be North Calif for a bit though, staying with a friend, HQ, looking for a house, that sort of thing.

[patrickt]

Well did you at least order an aluminum one this time?

[Excaliber]

You know, I'm not competely sold on the idea of a light weight flywheel, especially for street use. You can make a case for a heavy wheel. I wonder what the weight is of a stock 427 wheel is? Like I said earlier, this Hays is a 40 pounder.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

You know, I'm not competely sold on the idea of a light weight flywheel, especially for street use. You can make a case for a heavy wheel. I wonder what the weight is of a stock 427 wheel is? Like I said earlier, this Hays is a 40 pounder.

About 34 pounds.

Ernie-go for the dough and get a zero-balanced, 18 pound, 184 TOOTH aluminum. There's no down side other than $360-$420, depending what you get. Get a McLoed.

Don't make a case for heavy wheels.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

About 34 pounds.

Ernie-go for the dough and get a zero-balanced, 18 pound, 184 TOOTH aluminum. There's no down side other than $360-$420, depending what you get. Get a McLoed.

Don't make a case for heavy wheels.

+1 Aluminum is the way to go. Just ask the Kirkhams.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Almost correct . I`m running 26 degrees initial and a total of 36 degrees by using a 10 degree bushing from FBO in Cottage Grove , Oregon . Call Don there at 541-942-5920 . He makes 10 and 14 degree bushings for the MSD unit . You might also want to check out his website .... 4secondsflat.com .

Ernie, you seem to buy an old school engine guy, you need to call Don. You guys would hit it off and I'd be curious to hear what you think of his advice on how to properly time these FEs.

[Excaliber]

...heavy vs light weight wheel is a lot like small vs big block, can be a can of worms. I'm running pretty high gears, 65 mph in FIRST. That kind of setup lends itself to a heavier wheel.

I called Don this morning, had a knee slapping good old boy talk about whats going on around town and how things have changed over the years. Great fun, oh, and I finally got around to ordering those MSD bushings too. I look forward to meeting Don and checking out the garage in the near future. I might just drive my car up there and let HIM "dial in" the MSD curve and carbs! He had some good ideas on the subject, nice guy.

In a nut shell, Don likes the vacuum advance. He thinks my curve should be adjusted by adding or removing weight on the mech advance, not just changing the springs. He thought I might not need so much BASE advance IF my carbs were modified. In my case I might need to bring in full advance earlier than my current 3000 rpm, maybe 2400 rpm. Good stuff...

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Excaliber;986199I

called Don this morning, had a knee slapping good old boy talk about whats going on around town and how things have changed over the years. Great fun, oh, and I finally got around to ordering those MSD bushings too. I look forward to meeting Don and checking out the garage in the near future. I might just drive my car up there and let HIM "dial in" the MSD curve and carbs! He had some good ideas on the subject, nice guy.

That's cool. He suggested some voodoo timing and tuning on my FE and challenged me to do it, so I am waiting on cooler weather and some free time to play with some things he recommended. He sent me his bushings and emailed me the book a couple months ago. He's seems like a smart, experienced engine guy and is really fun to talk to. I'd be driving up there if I lived close.

[Excaliber]

Well just the fact the he likes vacuum advance kind of set's him apart from the crowd right off the bat! Seem's like most engine builders DON'T recommend it. I went with it in spite of being some what discouraged from doing so by others.

I think it is a safe bet for an engine builder to NOT recommend vacuum advance, there is always the concern you will end up with to much over all advance and could damage the engine, so why take a chance on recommending it? On the other hand, used wisely, it can be beneficial. It's just not for everybody in every circumstance. I like the road less traveled on occasion...

[Bobcat]

Correct ... he has some different ideas on timing , but seems to be able to back them up with solid reasons . What was interesting to me was how he set timing by the ground strap on the plug ... i.e , correct timing when the "mark " was in the middle of the curve . I played around some and found that if I advanced or retarded the timing , that " mark " moved in the direction he said it would . His booklet is worth every penny ... very good source .
He is also one of the few people that actually has a distributor machine ... and when I get around to it , the distributor , coil and wires off my 427 Galaxie will go to him so he can set it up .
I may be in Oregon next summer and plan to stop in if I`m close .

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

What was interesting to me was how he set timing by the ground strap on the plug ... i.e , correct timing when the "mark " was in the middle of the curve .

Yep, that's exactly what I meant by making time to work with it. I plan on getting a new set of plugs and setting it up fresh with his base and total timing values using his bushings and working from that timing mark on the strap. And I may try a vacuum advance dizzy. He claims 20-22 base +14 advance along with a vacuum advance will make a tremendous difference in how my 427 performs (and how long it lasts.)

[Bobcat]

About why engine builders don`t like vacuum advance .... I was told long ago that the "problem" was that when you went to WOT suddenly , the vacuum drop lagged behind enough to cause a momentary over advance condition ... while some others have said that was BS . I have no idea who`s right , however , I have a mechanical only advance on my MSD and would be interested in your results if you try a vacuum advance with Don`s bushings .
As a side note ... he told me you can "fine tune " the bushings by putting them in a vise and SLIGHTLY elongating them . This would allow more initial , but keep the max in the 36 degree range . Just make sure they slide freely in the slot . I was lucky ( I think ) as I hit what I was looking for without doing that .