Ford OEM Mass Meter sizes

olddog · #1 (**permalink**) 10-16-2012, 06:06 PM

The 89-93 EEC4 A9L uses a 4 wire MAF meter. Were any of the factory MAF big enough to support 450-500 Hp? If so what year/model/engine would it have come on? I was thinking the 460 cid trucks should be some of the bigger ones, but know idea how much bigger they are than the Mustang 5.0 engines came with.

Dwight · #2 (**permalink**) 10-16-2012, 07:51 PM

Olddog your are talking about the 5.0 motor?

The stock mass air was 56mm I think.
To make 450-500 I had to stroke the motor to 354, use a 90 mm MA and 80mm TB with a 80 mm Edelbrock intake. I have 36 lb injector but you can make 500 with 32- 34 lb injectors. I have a SCT chip and dyno tuned.
The big different was when I installed the Keith Craft Brodix heads and one of his custom Comp cam. I picked up about 80 hp with the KC stuff.

I'm making 402 to the rear wheel so that would be close to 480-500 at the flywheel.
To make 500 with a 302 would be hard unless it was a full all out race motor.
My set up is very streetable.

Dwight

Dwight · #3 (**permalink**) 10-16-2012, 08:04 PM

There are a lot of aftermarket bolt on mass air meters and TBs to use.

Dwight

olddog · #4 (**permalink**) 10-19-2012, 06:41 PM

Dwight,

I'm running a 347. It has EFI from a company called MassFlow. It basically is Edel Vic Jr intake that has injector bungs welded in the ports, and has a throttle body designed to resemble a 4 barrel carb. The air cleaner looks like a 60's era aftermarket chrome filter. Inside the air cleaner is a GM MAF meter. It has a stock EEC4 A9L computer. There is a MassFlow designed converter between the GM MAF meter and the Ford EEC4.

I am considering going back to a Ford MAF meter, but may want to go back to the MassFlow setup. So I was trying to figure out if the is a unit I can pick up at the local salvage yard fairly cheap to experiment with. I want it to be sized big enough for my engine. I also need it to be fairly common, in order to find one at a salvage yard.

Rick

Dwight · #5 (**permalink**) 10-19-2012, 07:23 PM

If I understand correctly, you are going to change the intake, add a Ford throttle body and mass air meter?

Dwight

olddog · #6 (**permalink**) 10-19-2012, 07:31 PM

No. I just want to remove the air cleaner and MAF. Then put on a hose (for lack of better words) that has a Ford MAF in it. Pipe it over to the air horn on the front. Obviously a filter has to be located somewhere before the MAF.

Dwight · #7 (**permalink**) 10-19-2012, 07:33 PM

Why??????????

Dwight

olddog · #8 (**permalink**) 10-19-2012, 08:03 PM

I have been chasing a problem for 3 years now. It started on hot 95 degree days, if you shut it off and restarted in about half hour it will miss and not rev up. Almost like it was against the rev limiter at say 2000 rpm. Problem is getting worse over time. Now it will do it on a 70 degree day and it gets so bad it will not even idle. It now blows black spoke running rich when it does it. It is definitely an under hood temp issue. It may take it 2 hours to start again if I keep the hood closed, but only a half hour if I open the hood.

I have good fuel pressure while it is doing it, and good spark. I have replaced everything from the coil, distributor, ignition module, wires, plugs, caps. In other words, I have replaced the entire ignition system. I have checked the injectors (ohms, and spray pattern) and they are good (OBTW 36 lb/hr). I have inspected grounds and all wires (new harness with the system but checked it anyway). I have swapped out the EEC4.

I'm down to the GM MAF meter or the signal converter. The signal converter is a circuit board with chips on it and it is sealed in gummy stuff like the inside of the TFI module. Other than MassFlow, there is no known source for a special board to convert a GM MAF meter pulse train into a 0-5 volt signal for the Ford EEC.

So I would like to just eliminate both the GM MAF and the signal converter and just try a Ford MAF. I do like the look of the air cleaner that is on it, so if it turns out to be something else, I may want to go back to it. It kind of depends on how good I can make this look, as well.

My first priority is to prove that the MAF system is the problem.

eschaider · #9 (**permalink**) 10-19-2012, 08:49 PM

Olddog,

When you change MAFs to need to change the MAF xfer function in the tune. To do that you need some tuning s/w. I would recommend you check out the Binary Editor (BE) from Clint Garrity click here => Binary Editor.

BE works with a hardware enhancement/enabler to the OEM CPU that is called The Moates Quarterhorse. The Quarterhorse allows you to tune in real time while the engine is running. Click here =>Moates for more info on Quarterhorse.

Although there are a few aftermarket alternatives the BE/Quarterhorse combo is by far the most complete and capable option/alternative for the EEC-IV generation cars/CPUs.

When it comes to MAFs you ought to take a hard look at the Pro-M Racing's MAFs click here => Pro-M. These guys wrote the book on MAFs. The deceased company founder Bob Atwood was a Ford engineer who was instrumental in pioneering the mass flow FI system you are now working with.

Their MAF technology is right at the cutting edge of what is possible. They are the company that provided MAFs for SCT, Granatelli, Delta Force and a surprisingly long list of others.

I recommend you take a look at their Pro-M 92 MAF. As you modify your engine if you grow out the top of the MAF's xfer function flow table these guys can actually recalibrate your MAF to what ever air demand you wish.

If you are going to embark on tuning your fuel injection yourself you probably need to have both a broader and also a more in-depth knowledge of the internal workings of a Ford ECU. I recommend the book by Don LaSota called The Ultimate Ford EFI Tuning Guide. The guide is available here => LaSota Racing

The finishing touch is an excellent course taught by Greg Bannish who has been employed by each of the Big 3 at different times to do their FI calibration (Detroit talk for tuning). Greg's site Calibrated Success is here => Greg Bannish. Greg has published several books on the subject of tuning that make good reading and are an excellent primer for his training courses.

Ed

olddog · #10 (**permalink**) 10-20-2012, 07:20 AM

Ed

Thanks for all this information. I have been planning to go with the QuarterHorse and some data logging software. I was not aware of the books.

Things run together in my head, but I was thinking that binary editor was used a lot by the tweecer crowd and that QuarterHorse was offering a different software. I will click on your links and read a bit.