EFI... that looks like Webers?

[Coupe Devil]

I have seen a few newer FORD Prototype engines, some old style stuff that uses EFI but sitting atop the engine are 8 small individual throttle bodies. When I get to the point of building my Cobra I definantly want to keep a Mustang style late model EFI. I just think the 8 little throttle bodies would be COOL...anyone have any more info on this type of set up??

Thanks
Brad

[ENTDOC]

among others

http://www.twminduction.com/v8_kits/v8_kits-FR.html

[Coupe Devil]

Thanks. I knew I had seen them somewhere but could not find them again.

[fkemmerer]

The setup that most people seem to use is from TWM. There is some work that you'd typically need to do to the TWM setup to make it work on the street. You'd need to have someone modify the manifold to support an Idle Air Control motor for electronnic fuel injection. You'd also need and EFI computer and sensor setup. A good choice there would be a FAST unit. As with any EFI setup, the fuel system and electrical system must also be set up correctly for you application. If you do these things, you can get EFI to work very well on the street. I am currently runing a 383 motor with a roots supercharger and a bug catcher injector had (drag racing style) on a vette and the package is the most streetable performance motor I have ever owned. I have also had Keith Craft biuld me an EFI Big Block Ford setup for an ERA cobra that I'm building based upon the setup that I described previously in this post. That motor made 650+ HP on the dyno. I would expect it will be quite streetable in my Cobra when its complete. Attached is a pic of the motor for my cobra based upon the TWM setup.

[Coupe Devil]

I plan on using my 90 Mustang 5.0 injection stuff. So I would just have to get the manifold modified for the IAC? Seems easy enough... but I know it wouldnt be. I REALLY like how the set up looks. Streetability is VERY important...MOST likely I'll do the build using my stock type injection stuff and do this type swap later.

Thanks for the info fellas.

[fkemmerer]

If you use the TWM manfold/injectors, I would recommend the modification. On an individual runner setup like the TWM, there is not way for the computer to control the amount of air going into the motor at idle to regulate the idle speed. The modifications involve running lines under the intake to a common resevior at the back of the intake manifold wher the IAC is mounted. Once the TWM manifold is installed, all of the plumbing is hidden underneath and you can easily change the IAC motor which will be at the back of the intake. If you decide to take the motor to an engine builder to install the EFI setup, they would most likely do the modification for you and then tune your motor on a dyno. If you want to do this yourself, you'll need to find a compent builder or machinist who is familar with EFI and they'll handle the modifications for you. Keith Craft did my manifold and they did a great job. Without the IAC, you loose a couple of important capabilities: 1) the computer will have a very limited capability to regulate idle speed (only ignition timing). To compensate for this, you'll have to mechanically set the idle speed fast enough to allow the motor to warm up when its cold which will probably create a faster warm idle speed then you'd want on the street and 2) you'll lost the "throttle follower" capability that most EFI system use. This has a number of impact on how well transient throttle action work which is important on the street. For example, if you accelerate hard and then completely lift off the throttle, most engine will tend to go lean and backfire because of the sudden high vacumn situation created in the intake. The IAC motor and the computer on a well tuned EFI setup will compensate for this by opening the IAC motor at full throttle and then closing it over a short period of time to avoid the high vacumn/backfire scenaio that I mentioned. Net is that you really want to run an IAC motor with a setup like the TWM on the street. Its a little extra trouble and $$ up front but you'll be glad you did once the motor is done.

[fkemmerer]

BTW, I'm not sure how well the Stock 5.0 EFI setup will work. I think it would be unlikely that the stock EFI computer would be able to handle the stack type injection from TWM. You should probably be thinking and after market system such as the FAST XFI. This will give you the tuning features that are needed to make the TWM system work well. If you don't have alot of experience with EFI, I'd suggest you try to find a shop that has at least a chassis dyno and experience with EFI installation and tuning. They will be able to handle all of this for you and get the setup tuned right. Once it it, the performance and driveability will be excellent the computer will keep the motor in tune for you much as the stock 5.0 setup does.

[carmine]

For an efi with a real authentic weber look, check these guys out. www.dynatekracing.com

[B+L FFR1686]

This setup is way better than the TWM in my opinion. www.verycoolparts.com

Brian

[Coupe Devil]

These all look NICE.. Better start savin my pennies!

[silverstreak]

I am very happy with my TWM manifold. Great castings and machining (perfect fit within my heads and block combo). Well designed rotary throttle linkage and vac accumulator. The injectors and wiring harness are all hidden under the center placed fuel rails. Thats the style I like! I run a distributorless ignition system so the plug wires come up from below. Gives it a naked simple look in the engine bay.

[IMG][/IMG]



This was the first way I set up the coils on valve covers for a modern tech style

[bobcowan]

I got mine from www.momarefi.com. I chose this set up because of the better construction. It's all billit, and not cast. Cast parts can change size if the get too hot. They don't use seals on the shafts, either. Some kind of NASA product keeps them sealed and lasts forever.

I used a Blue Oval Weber manifold, and had to make the mod for the vacuum manifold. But the manifold used by www.verycoolparts.com has the vacuum manifold cast in to it. If I were to do it again, that's what I would use.

The computer you choose will make all the differance in ease of use. I bought my system about 4 years ago, and used a Haltech fuel only computer. It can operate on narrow band closed loop for general cruising. But it's a little difficult to tune, and really needs dyno time to get it right. Newer systems have a wide band WEGO sensor, and are self tuning.

Also, pay carefull attention to smog requirements in your area. When I got mine smogged, the specs I had to meet depended on the year the engine represented. I showed them a picture of a '65 with webers, and that's what I got. I had to meet '65 standards. Some areas of the country are not so relaxed.

[silverstreak]

lookin good Bob Cowan. I like the thought of just showing a picture of a '65 motor with webbers and they say "Oh yeah I see". Ain't Colorado great!

[double ugly]

http://www.imagineinjection.com/
Bob has an excellent set up.
John

[thorconstr]

Email me at thorconstr@msn.com I can do a complete setup for you. You can click on Thor Motorsports in the advertisers column. We give good breaks to CC members. Thanks, Al

[Rwillia4]

I have the TWM system and it works great, it is very streetable and has the grunt when needed. It idles smoothly when cold and warm which is adjusted thru the linkage. There is NO Idle Air Control motor as suggested nor does it need it. I picked it because of many others using it (including Roush) and I felt the support would be there for a long time. I also liek the fuel rail on the inside of the stacks, it has a cleaner look IMHO. I use the FAST system to control it. Look thru my pictures to see my the dyno sheet.
Some of the other systems I'm sure work well also (I like the look of the efi webers but they can only handle upto 500 hp). Some are not as good as others, ther is one suggested here that has a LARGE backfire problem (not exhaust leak related, mor eof the injectors spraying on decel). Bottem line do your homework and see the setup in a vehicle and talk to the guy before you dump the wad of money.

[Kramer]

You have to love this web site. Here is a picture of my set up...normal TWM setup except I had the manifold powder coated to match my valve covers...

Two thoughts...

1) I have only talked with AL at Thorconst...but he seems to really know what he is talking about. I just wished he lived closer to me.

2) My only complaint is the BB FE set up has left me in need of air cleaners....I keep hearing about something coming but I think I am going to have make my own....if anyone has done this before, I sure would appreciate any feedback.

Kramer

[Kramer]

Forgot that pic kinda sucks...here is one of the setup in the car....

Pardon the tennis balls....still working on fabing up some cool filters (They have a "air box" that covers them all up but I love the individual stack look)

[FUNFER2]

Kramer-
I would assume that the K&N type will filter better but, are the small filters on the stacks, not enough ?

Kevin

[bobcowan]

The "Tea Strainer" air cleaners keep out the big rocks and bugs. That's about it. For street use you really need something a little better. TWM use to make a large plenum that covered all of the throttle bodies and then had a large flat panel type K&N filter as a top. If you cruise through the K&^N web site you can find some stack filters that might work. I use 4 oval K&N filters in custom made housing. It costs power, but on the street I'm not too worried about it.