Which GT40?

[zots]

I am in the process of building a RCR GT40. I got it last March after visiting RCR in Michigan and talking at length with Fran. It is quite a place and his engineering and the monocoque chassis are impressive.

It sat in my garage for 3 months before I could get myself to do anything - it was overwhelming! I now work on it a little most days. It is fun and challenging to figure things out.

[rodneym]

zots,

And I thought building a Cobra would be fun and challenging...

Looks like a handfull. But the rewards...

[trularin]

My RCR is also in pieces - mostly powder coating.

I got the "big butt" option, damn this is going to be one mean machine.

Zots, I have to ask - what color???

Tru

[RodKnock]

I think the best value is the RCR and likely the GT40 replica that I would own. Of course, the ERA and SPF are excellent options, but ERA's aren't in production anymore, so you would need to find one used and I'm not sure about the customer support for the GT40 at this point, and the SPF is overpriced when compared to the RCR and ERA offerings at roughly $100K.

Personally, the CAV would not be an option for me since the appearance (body lines) doesn't look correct to me, especially the roof line to rear end.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I think the best value is the RCR and likely the GT40 replica that I would own. Of course, the ERA and SPF are excellent options, but ERA's aren't in production anymore, so you would need to find one used and I'm not sure about the customer support for the GT40 at this point, and the SPF is overpriced when compared to the RCR and ERA offerings at roughly $100K.

Personally, the CAV would not be an option for me since the appearance (body lines) doesn't look correct to me, especially the roof line to rear end.

Perhaps if you look at the total end cost the difference is not so great. If you have the time and talent to do the RCR build great, however if you must pay a qualified shop to do the build I think you will find the cost difference non existent or perhaps actually in favor of the SPF. How many hours to build and then to paint the RCR? Even at a $50.00 hourly rate (which won't get you much of ao shop) the hours will add up to a considerable amount. Props to those who do their own builds but it is not for everyone.

[zots]

I had the option to purchase a CAV roller for $45k and a completed Roaring Forties GT40 for $35k...but really wanted to build one. I don't regret going the build route...but it is not for everyone. I have plenty of time and am in no hurry (retired) and I enjoy a challenge.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Perhaps if you look at the total end cost the difference is not so great. If you have the time and talent to do the RCR build great, however if you must pay a qualified shop to do the build I think you will find the cost difference non existent or perhaps actually in favor of the SPF. How many hours to build and then to paint the RCR? Even at a $50.00 hourly rate (which won't get you much of ao shop) the hours will add up to a considerable amount. Props to those who do their own builds but it is not for everyone.

I don't think so. Let's not BS the public.

Obviously, this is your area of expertise as an SPF dealer, but Hillbank has 3-4 SPF GT40 listings at $165,000-$170,000. I remember Jack Houpe (sp?) had his sold with 13,000 miles with a $135,000 ask price.

I've seen completed RCR's and ERA's ask prices in the $90,000-$100,000 range.The roller price of an SPF is roughly $100,000+ and the RCR deluxe kit is $42,000. It won't cost $60,000 +/- to get the RCR to a completed painted roller.

In fact, I've seen postings on the GT40s forum that RCR's are much less than $100,000 for a completely sorted finished painted running product.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I don't think so. Let's not BS the public.

Obviously, this is your area of expertise as an SPF dealer, but Hillbank has 3-4 SPF GT40 listings at $165,000-$170,000. I remember Jack Houpe (sp?) had his sold with 13,000 miles with a $135,000 ask price.

I've seen completed RCR's and ERA's ask prices in the $90,000-$100,000 range.The roller price of an SPF is roughly $100,000+ and the RCR deluxe kit is $42,000. It won't cost $60,000 +/- to get the RCR to a completed painted roller.

In fact, I've seen postings on the GT40s forum that RCR's are much less than $100,000 for a completely sorted finished painted running product.

I am talking "new" build vs. resale. If you have an RCR built for you and painted to a good standard you will have the price of an SPF roller. I base this on a conversation with a pro builder who had an RCR GT40 brought to him for build. He opined the hours needed and the paint would bring the total to the 100K area. Of course your results may vary.

And this is NOT a knock on the RCR or any other kit for that matter. The best GT40 is the one you can buy and the one you like. Different answers for different questions.

And resale value is subjective to a point. Perhaps people perceive more value in "X" than in "Y" and therefore will pay more on a resale basis. A factory built car is a known level of construction, a self build will be valued on the quality of the parts and the builder. I for one have seen some Factory Five cars that were fabulously built.......and one I wouldn't ride in if you paid me!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

I am talking "new" build vs. resale. If you have an RCR built for you and painted to a good standard you will have the price of an SPF roller. I base this on a conversation with a pro builder who had an RCR GT40 brought to him for build. He opined the hours needed and the paint would bring the total to the 100K area. Of course your results may vary.

And this is NOT a knock on the RCR or any other kit for that matter. The best GT40 is the one you can buy and the one you like. Different answers for different questions.

And resale value is subjective to a point. Perhaps people perceive more value in "X" than in "Y" and therefore will pay more on a resale basis. A factory built car is a known level of construction, a self build will be valued on the quality of the parts and the builder. I for one have seen some Factory Five cars that were fabulously built.......and one I wouldn't ride in if you paid me!

Just one quick google away and Fran stated in 2011 said his turnkey's were $65K. I didn't searchanyfurther. Now I'm sure that price has changed and maybe he left something out, but RCR's "probuilt" will be ALOT cheaper than an SPF at $170,000.

The RCR Deluxe Plus Kit is $42,000. Add paint, engine, transaxle, installation and assembly by Fran, I'd think you would hard-pressed to spend an addtional $130,000.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Just one quick google away and Fran stated in 2011 said his turnkey's were $65K. I didn't searchanyfurther. Now I'm sure that price has changed and maybe he left something out, but RCR's "probuilt" will be ALOT cheaper than an SPF at $170,000.

The RCR Deluxe Plus Kit is $42,000. Add paint, engine, transaxle, installation and assembly by Fran, I'd think you would hard-pressed to spend an addtional $130,000.

But you can get an SPF for less than "$170,000"...an advert with an asking price does not the market make. And does the 62K "Turnkey" include paint, headers, A/C system, etc.. I ask this not as a smartarse, but I really don't know. And again, the RCR is a great car but it is different than the SPF. One is an homage to the GT40 and one is a "replica" in the true sense. Again, one is not "better' than the other, but a different interpretation of the 60s FAV car.

I will gladly sell my SPF MK II listed at 128K for 170K if you really want it! And I don't think Fran can do the full assembly as well as engine and transaxle, that would violate the federal regulations as he would be an "automotive manufacturer and therefore subject to all FMVSS standards.

[SwiftDB4]

Rodknock I notice you have a Kirkham. How would you compare that to a Factory Five? I would put an RCR GT40 above Factory Five quality, but it is not nearly as original as an SPF. If originality isn't important get an RCR. Have you carefully looked over RCR, SPF, CAV, and ERA GT40's? The fit and finish of the SPF and ERA exceeds the RCR and CAV's I've seen.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by SwiftDB4

Rodknock I notice you have a Kirkham. How would you compare that to a Factory Five? I would put an RCR GT40 above Factory Five quality, but it is not nearly as original as an SPF. If originality isn't important get an RCR. Have you carefully looked over RCR, SPF, CAV, and ERA GT40's? The fit and finish of the SPF and ERA exceeds the RCR and CAV's I've seen.

So, you must NOT be too "Swift."

I'll quote myself just in case you missed it or your reading comprehension skills aren't what they used to be. And I'll bold my points to help you out.

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I think the best value is the RCR and likely the GT40 replica that I would own. Of course, the ERA and SPF are excellent options, but ERA's aren't in production anymore, so you would need to find one used and I'm not sure about the customer support for the GT40 at this point, and the SPF is overpriced when compared to the RCR and ERA offerings at roughly $100K.

I'm sorry did I say somewhere that the SPF GT40 isn't as nice as the RCR or ERA. Did I say that the SPF is less original than the RCR/ERA? Oy vey!

And besides the Kirkham being an aluminum body, having an over-engineered billet aluminum suspension, aluminum rear end and whole lot of other stuff that the FFR doesn't have, the Kirkham is built by the finest and nicest craftsmen (and maybe craftswomen too, I don't know) in the world and who will customize your Kirkham Cobra to your heart's content. Just ask Mr. Larry Ellison of Oracle fame.

And anyway, I've seen some fantastic FFR's too at shows. I've seen some bad ones as well. Thus, your comparison of FFR to RCR falls short to me. And I'm sure if Fran were here, he'd agree with me.

Originally Posted by SwiftDB4

Rodknock I notice you have a Kirkham.

Well, if you also noticed, I have a Kirkham, which is polished and has a billet aluminum suspension, battery in the trunk, an aluminum rear end, 5-speed Tremec, all-aluminum 482, among many other improvements, which aren't original. So, no, originality isn't my #1 priority.

Lastly, if you know me here on CC, then you know that I consider all modern Shelbys and, by the same token, SPF GT40's to be REPLICAS. Homage? Puh-leeze. Not the same (OEM) parts, not the same employees, not the same company and 50 years later.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

But you can get an SPF for less than "$170,000"...an advert with an asking price does not the market make. And does the 62K "Turnkey" include paint, headers, A/C system, etc.. I ask this not as a smartarse, but I really don't know. And again, the RCR is a great car but it is different than the SPF. One is an homage to the GT40 and one is a "replica" in the true sense. Again, one is not "better' than the other, but a different interpretation of the 60s FAV car.

I will gladly sell my SPF MK II listed at 128K for 170K if you really want it! And I don't think Fran can do the full assembly as well as engine and transaxle, that would violate the federal regulations as he would be an "automotive manufacturer and therefore subject to all FMVSS standards.

I can have a new RCR40 built to my exacting standards (i.e., top notch, better than a roller SPF) FAR FAR cheaper than I can finish a new SPF. Even here in the SF Bay Area, where labor rates and shop rents aren't cheap. Trust me on that one. However, I've ruled out buying a GT40, since I'm a convertible-roadster-kinda. The GT40 is too confining to me.

[twobjshelbys]

Replica or no replica, why does everything have to degenerate to that?

The question is whether this guy should buy any of the (Cobra, Coupe, GT40). Help him decide IF now WHICH first.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Replica or no replica, why does everything have to degenerate to that?

When someone (Swift) talks about originality of the SPF GT40 being superior to the rest of the GT40's. It's an "homage." While the SPF GT40 is "more original" than the others, Swift actually thought I REALLY cared about originality, because I owned a Kirkham. And he or she brought up the comparison of the FFR to the Kirkham (quality and originality).

That's why, can you understand the "degeneration" now?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

When someone (Swift) talks about originality of the SPF GT40 being superior to the rest of the GT40's. It's an "homage." While the SPF GT40 is "more original" than the others, Swift actually thought I REALLY cared about originality, because I owned a Kirkham. And he or she brought up the comparison of the FFR to the Kirkham (quality and originality).

That's why, can you understand the "degeneration" now?

Well, after composing 5 separate replies, all quite humorous, my response is "why bother, everything that can be said has been said". And it turns out, I've already said it so many times that it's not worth trying again.

Have a swell day.

Sure hope the original poster can get some meaningful feedback. My recommendation is still to buy a Cobra as your first car.

[thorconstr]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Just one quick google away and Fran stated in 2011 said his turnkey's were $65K. I didn't searchanyfurther. Now I'm sure that price has changed and maybe he left something out, but RCR's "probuilt" will be ALOT cheaper than an SPF at $170,000.

The RCR Deluxe Plus Kit is $42,000. Add paint, engine, transaxle, installation and assembly by Fran, I'd think you would hard-pressed to spend an addtional $130,000.

RCR doesn't do turnkey anymore.

[thorconstr]

I think you are better off buying a finished car. The build always ends up with more in parts than expected and you give your labor away.

[REAL 1]

Real or replica? Did someone say that?

Another thread that degenerated to "Real or Replica" without me.

Very simply this again is what is considered "better" to the purchaser. Many criteria are subjective many are objective.

I like the fact the Spf's are factory built and have license from Safir and are th only cars legally that can be called GT40's from the factory. Replica of the original but a damn nice one and legally a GT40.

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Sure hope the original poster can get some meaningful feedback

The OP has left the room weeks ago and decided against a GT40....