Assembly Required! Or turnkey?

[ROUSHAC]

Dean,

You are lucky enough to have you two ace mechanics to help. The time that you get to spend with your boys is indeed priceless.

But, I do have to say though that I believe that not enough people who build their own cars value the time they have invested highly enough, especially when they sell their cars. If you had to pay someone to do the same work, it would be a significant amount of money.

Cheers!
Dave

[xlr8or]

But think of the money you are saving on therapy by having your own garage therapy.

I loved the build process and it's a never ending thing. There will always be thing you wish you did differently after it's basically done. I figure my labor is 80% free as it would otherwise be spent doing something like working or sitting on my ass watching a ball game.

[ROUSHAC]

xlr8or,

Good point!

Cheers!
Dave

[ENTDOC]

as stated before I have built 2 cobras and recently bought a CAV. I can say after climbing all over and under the CAV that building it would be significantly more tedious than a cobra. Bodywork alone will account for a lot more time than a cobra ,since fitting the panels is more detailed. Drivetrain appears more complicated also. Nothing that a little time and patience cannot overcome ,but be prepared for it. I think Bill D would agree. chuck

[oliver350]

would not load.. to big of a photo..i will try again.

[dlampe]

Chuck, how complete was your KMP when you recieved it? Mine came as a roller. It would have been a tough build out of a box. The RCR Gt looks like a great box of parts! I see the potental in this kit to be the top GT replica on the market. Now I am new to the GT world so if I am wrong please point out where. I am open to learning.

[ENTDOC]

Dean, I do not think you are wrong at all. It certainly appears to be the best kit out there and one that I considered. It is very similiar to the CAV as far as construction and susp. so it should at least be comparable. Fit and finish on CAV's and I presume SPF's is superb but easily attainable by a good builder with a RCR kit. I look forward hearing of your experience and perhaps building on some day. MY KMP was a roller (266),but as you know there is a lot of details to make one exceptional. I do love the CAV,very fun car. chuck

[xlr8or]

Dean and Chuck,
My KMP was an unassembled car with 20 boxes of parts. The most difficult thing I found was the wiring harness as the wires were not marked. I am really looking forward to building a GT40. I have restored a few cars and find that to be much more tedious and difficult than building a race car with a license plate (Cobra or GT40 etc) and making it comfortable to drive.
With the exception of Interior and Paint everything on the car either makes it go or makes it stop.

[ENTDOC]

I will point out one detail I have found to be important. I think most of us cobra guys get hooked on horse power and highly tuned engines. My CAV has a mildly modified 302 and although there are certainly more powerful cars,it has the advantage of running smoothly with minimal tinkering and fuss. I would suggest trying to control the natural urge to stick a too highly tuned motor in yours so you can enjoy the car more,maybe a 331 making a maximum of 375-400hp or so.

[xlr8or]

Chuck I like torque so I may go a litte higher than that. I am with you on the drivability issue and cam selection is very important for this. I like to keep the torque curve pushed down in the RPM range since mine turn into the daily driver type and traffic around here can get pretty ugly.

[Johan]

Just because Fran does not charge enough for his cars does not mean they lack anything in quality. Of course they are not finished. There is a lot of work to do
on them and there is the money left over to do it with. Oliver, did I meet you at Sebring ?

[oliver350]

NO! Not there!

[ENTDOC]

I cannot argue with the torque issue,I do need to keep the revs up in traffic. After a ride in the 427 stroker cobra where I can start in 3rd gear without shudder,it takes a while to remember 1st gear is a must in the 40. Maybe a mild 351W would be a good choice. chuck

[Excaliber]

Having a big block means never having to down shift!

Acutally one of the really FUN things I like to do with my ERA (which has pretty tall gearing) is downshift into SECOND GEAR at 60 or 65 mph and then 'nail it'! On the freeway that is just a blast as the car pulls ahead at a blistering pace, a 100 mph literally mere seconds away. In fact that would be 8 seconds from a dead stop...

My friend, with a small block Cobra, is totally shocked when I do that. He's in fourth and at best could consider a down shift to 3rd, maybe.

[ENTDOC]

my post was not intended to start a small block, big block debate or even a debate on torque vrs less torque. I really wanted to point out the advantages of a simple well built,not high strung motor for the gt40 driver. I view the 40 as more of a quick ,well handling sports car and the cobra as more of a brutally fast ,difficult to handle sports car. I have one of each and like them both for different reasons. chuck

[xlr8or]

Doc, that's what I intend to do with a little more torque/HP. With proper cam/head selection you can make a 450HP SB that is very streetable and easy to drive around town. I will probably put a rev limiter in mine at about 6000 RPM and try to keep the torque peak around 3800-4200 RPM so there is no need to rev the crap out of it.

[Johan]

At the recent Can Am reunion race at Elkhart lake, out of a 50+ car field, the top five finishers contained two or three small blocks and the times/speeds would have qualified them back in the day. Just an observation that small block technology has come a long way. All had around 700-800 and in the case of the winner, 900 hp and yes that was a big Block M8F.The small blocks were Lolas.....!

[oliver350]

This thread was a bit hijacked. But anyway CASE AND POINT!!Regarding this thread. Go too Gt40 forum and check out the RCR for sale still in crates. He pretty much has all the goodies and the car is still in crates..$69,000. Buckoroo's. By the time your done $90,000.00 if done right. The seller has all the right parts not including all the guess work and extras. So this pretty much makes my point. So if your considering a gt40 by the low price...Sales pitch ..Think again.

Oliver

[crossle43]

Oliver,

After reviewing all the comments about build vs. turnkey (the first of which was started in your usual soft-spoken manner ), it's easy to see that each of the perspectives is absolutely right. Jim ccc, ENTDOC, ROUSHAC and xlr8or collectively summed it up: For many, myself included, building with ones own hands over time is not only good therapy but I can flat guarantee you that it will result in a more detailed product on a significantly smaller budget when its complete - plus have some fun along the way. Not to say that your turnkey RF or the gear from CAV, Superformance, GT40 Australia, NZ and most recently Turn Ten aren't top flight, because I'm sure they are (I've had some time in both seats of an RF and I loved it - great car).

With no disrespect meant to the owners of other makes, the quality of RCRs chassis and bodywork must been seen, touched to truly appreciate how remarkable both components are. The bodywork is simply amazing, even the widely respected Chris Melia has testified to that, and the monocoque is every bit the same quality. The welds on the monocoque (I'm one who appreciates attention to detail in such things) would nearly bring tears to your eyes, they're that good. The next opportunity you have to take in an RCR in person, don't pass it up.

As for John, who's selling his RCR-40 after only recently gathering most of the components, give him credit for recognizing the investment of time required to finish the car. From what I read in his ad, John hasn't cut corners when it came to the various bits (a roll cage even!) so it was easy to see his GT was going to be closer to the top of the heap when finished. I'm sure he wasn't happy to arrive at the decision to sell, but the new owner will have something remarkable to start with and every opportunity for a truly great piece when done.

To assert that building a kit in ones garage isn't any less expensive than a turnkey doesn't make sense though. If I had spent 35K on an ALMS-quality race engine plus the $$ for a new ZF (and so forth), would you be talking about how all kits can't be touched for less that 100K? Probably not - you're a pretty bright guy and would rightly conclude that some of these components may have been just a little on the pricey side.

It seems to me that the great thing about a kit is how individualized or chock-full of details one can make it - whether it's an 800# gorilla like Bill D and his son Anthony are creating in California, or something a little more, um, normal.

By the way, IS there anything 'normal' about a GT40?

Kind regards to all,

T.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by oliver350

I forgot about the canadians.!!! Turnkeys are rolling chassis. However, you have the choice to install the motor and trans yourself or have it done.Regardless to install motor and trans is moderate compaired to a full build.

Note 49,000.00 for a non assembled kit plus $25,000 for simple motor, ok paint job,and cheap Audi transaxle...Any upgrades form the basic setup get prepared to pay! plus time and labor.=$72,000 + basic!! SPF Turnkey $69,000.00Turnkey just fit motor and transaxel done!. This can get up to over $100,00.00. But you have a professionally finised car with the best of everything. Resale would also be a great variance if the car was a kit or a factory produced car. Build standards are individualized by kit ...Manf. stadards consistant by Mana fact. specifications.

OLIVER

Rolling chassis is actually referred to as a "Turnkey minus."