I think another MSD box died on me. Considering points. Frustrated

[nymathboy]

First MSD box went 600 miles and then it died. A mechanic of 30 years confirmed it.

In goes another MSD box and this time the mechanic wires it up. I am cruising around a local track with about 1000 people in the stands and engine dies. I have yet to confirm that the MSD box died again but I have a strong feeling that it did. All fuses under the dash tested ok. I put the test light to the + and - side of the coil and cranked the engine and the test ight lit up. Then it started raining so I gave up since I like to work outside on my car.

I am strongly considering going back to a points Dizzy and getting rid of this electronic stuff.

Will post pics of how I wired it soon to let you know how I did it.

[Tommy]

I'm not a big believer in coincidence. So if it turns out your second failure was the same as your first, I'd start looking for an underlying cause (e.g., heat, vibration, etc.).

[tkb289]

I agree with Tommy ... first check for contributing factors.

If you decide not to not run an MSD box, take a look at a Pertroinx distributor. It has a hall effect sensor instead of points, something to consider.

[marcocsx3121]

Electronic ignition boxes are prone to heat failure. I had two in a row die that were mounted on the inner fender of my long gone supercharged '94 Camaro. I finally placed an insulating block between box number three and the fender, and I was good to go, or at least until I barrel rolled the thing.

[nymathboy]

I mounted the MSD box above the passenger footwell. Heat may have been a factor since we (a lot of classic cars) were in a line waiting to go around the track. My fan came on at 160 and ran like a champ for what it's worth.

My car also vibrates with the best of them which is actually something that I like.

Rather than trying to make my car work with the MSD box and hope that it doesn't die a third time, I'd rather get something that I don't have to worry about.

Here is how I wired up the MSD box:
351w is not starting. Help. Here is what I have tried.

It is on page 1 at the end of the page.

I have heard a lot of good things about the Pertroinx dizzy and I willing to spend some more money if the problem is solved and there is a decent benefit to the product.

[RICK LAKE]

nymathboy First off any chance of getting a first name?? If you have spark at the coil than the problem is in the distributor. Either the rotor is not having contact with the center pile in the cap or the center pile in the cap is burnt out or broken off. This is the main problem with MSD caps and rotors. Some of the guys have gone to stock caps and rotors with metal center contacts. The carbon just breaks or burns over time. As far the the MSD box, get it out from under the hood. I mount mine to the under side of the glove box with my FI ECU brain. Have plenty of cool air to control heat of these brains.
Next wiring, Have 1 ground going to the MSD box (one of the 4 mount bolts) to chassic frame ground. Make sure you have 2-3 grounds on the car from the battery to chassic ground, from frame to motor (2)and direct ground to battery from MSD. 10 gauge wire min. Make sure that there is no paint on these spots for a good contact. Cover over with a little black grease to keep mcontact from rusting. Location of coil and what kind you have?? I know oil filled coils look correct on the motor, this is a POOR location and design. Also if the coil is mounted horizontal. This causes the windings in the coil to over heat because only half are in oil the rest are cooled by splash or mist. Vertical mounting is better but still have a vibration of the motor shaking the coil. Again not good. If the msd is new within a year or 2, call MSD tech, explain what happened, how upset you feel about having your car towed home. What they can do to help fix this problem. Most of the time they will repair the unit for cost of shipping. You get more help with being nice than starting the screaming thing and nasty root.
Check rotor and cap first, make sure of contact of rotor is pushing on center of cap. It should also be sticking out of the center a little if flat, pile is gone or burnt out. Rick L.

[nymathboy]

Tim is my first name.

The dizzy is a Ford that came from the factory with the engine. I checked it the first time the car died and it wasn't the problem. I'll check it again when I get the chance. It started raining cats, dogs and then cows over in this area so I put it off until another day.

The only thing MSD on my car is the 6AL box. I might be jumping to conclusions to assume the MSD box is the problem since I haven't had a chance yet this time around to check it. It is about a week old. My mechanic mounted the box in the same position that I had it before.

My coil is mounted half way between vertical and horizontal. It is about 3 weeks old.

The plugs are new. The plug wires are about a year old.

When I tested the coil with my test light it blew out the bulb in it so I have to make a trip to the nearby city to get another one.

I'm not mad at all. Frustrated maybe but not mad. I do want to make progress in solving this problem so that it doesn't happen while I'm on a four lane interstate.

So when I get a little time, I will check the mounts for the box, check the dizzy, check the box and a few other things. I will get back to you guys.

[Dwight]

Tim have your alternator check by shop that rebuilds or works on them, Not Auto Zone or other parts stores.

We had one box burned by the alternator. MSD rebuild it for $80.

Dwight

[patrickt]

If you did manage to fry two MSD boxes that fast then I'm betting Dwight's right and your alternator is blasting it. You can burn up an MSD box with a jump start if you're not careful (and even if you are). That's why the MSD tech support people recommend that you install their big-ass capacitor right before the box to help shield it from voltage variances.

[Keithc8]

The points sure will not well as well as the MSD stuff. We have ran them for years on our race cars, Cobras, Mustang builds and all. You must have something else taking them out. Sold hundreds of them and had very few problems with them. Much hotter spark and will rev much higher than out of date points.
When you find the problem you will have no more problems with them, also like the fact that you can run a rpm limiter chip.

Good luck, Keith

[nymathboy]

Good point about the alternator! I do have the best GM style alternator with out going to a bigger size. The guy at the alternator shop tested a bunch of them and gave me the best one. He was a car guy and when I showed him a picture of my Cobra, he wanted to give me the best he had.

My guage was showing that my alternator was charging at 14.5 amps if I remember right. The guage is accurate.

I hate to say this but I ordered a Pertronix distributor. It seemed like the right move for me. It is simple to wire and all I need to check is the coil to see if I need to add a ballast resistor or not. There are no points to adjust.

Under ideal conditions I'm sure the MSD out performs everything else but I have heat, vibrations and I might even have wiring issues. I'll save the MSD box and see if the factory might fix it for a small fee.

If the new Pertronix dizzy does what it is suppose to do I'll be happy. When I eventually get a high performance engine I'll give the MSD box another try.

[mreid]

I guess the next question will be what kind of cam do you have and what distributor gear is on the new distributor?

[nymathboy]

Called Summit and told them stock. I assume that the guy on the phone knew what gears to get.

It is a HO 351w engine and I believe that the only thing different from the HO engine and the regular 351w is that for that particular year the HO version might have gained 5 extra horse power due to the cam.

[RICK LAKE]

nymathboy Tim I hope that the charging is 14.5 volts and not 14.5 amps. I have seen upset before and this looks like it. You will get it. M Reid is right about distributor gears. Need to match camshaft in motor or could have camshaft eat gear in 500 miles. Again could be on side of road. Rick L.

[nymathboy]

Here is an update:

(Out of respect for MSD there is a good chance that it wasn't the MSD box causing the problem)

-I pulled the MSD box
-I put in a Pertronix Flame III distributor in
(I did that because I wanted to keep things simple but not mess with points)

After I did that I cranked the engine over and nothing happened. So after some figuring out what the problem might have been I replaced the coil.

-Replaced the Accel coil (will never put another one in because it lasted less than a day) with a duralast one

Turned the key and the sweet sound of a Ford 351w coming to life was music to my ears.

[Dwight]

Accel's installation instructions suggest you mount their oil filled coil vertical. They do not tell you if you mount it horizontal or on a non vertical position the air bubble inside will expose the coil and burn it up. If you call and ask them about it they will tell you it "should" be mounted vertical or it will damage the coil.
Did you have an oil fill Accel coil?
Dwight

[nymathboy]

Originally Posted by Dwight

Accel's installation instructions suggest you mount their oil filled coil vertical. They do not tell you if you mount it horizontal or on a non vertical position the air bubble inside will expose the coil and burn it up. If you call and ask them about it they will tell you it "should" be mounted vertical or it will damage the coil.
Did you have an oil fill Accel coil?
Dwight

I believe that is was mounted at a 60 to 70 degrees angled upward position. It was not 90 degrees vertical but far from horizontal

It was oil fill.

In anycase I will update on how long the duralast coil lasts. It is mounted in the same position.

[Tom Wells]

Tim,

You are not alone!

Look here: MSD Blaster2 Coil failed while driving

Tom

[D-CEL]

When I decided to make the change from my failure prone SVO Dura-spark boxes to MSD, I hedged my bet with a redundant system.
2 HVC 6 boxes (mounted in the passenger foot well) 2 HVC coils, coil splitter, noise filter, and a rev limiter right out of a Winston cup car.
They are wired with a switch on the dash. If something fails, flip the switch!
I haven’t needed it yet, but im ready! lol

[nymathboy]

D CEL, That is too cool and one really great set up.

Tom, Thanks for the link. So much can go wrong when it comes to wiring and electronics in general.