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 18Likes
07-08-2016, 10:46 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bay Area (Peninsula),
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 427, 427/487 side-oiler
Posts: 1,248
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Not Ranked
The 6530 has a MAP averaging function for just that reason. Works perfectly.
Separately, can you post or provide a link to the ignition curve you mentioned?
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07-08-2016, 11:24 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: St. Louisville,
Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 67 427 cobra SB
Posts: 2,445
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy
The 6530 has a MAP averaging function for just that reason. Works perfectly.
Separately, can you post or provide a link to the ignition curve you mentioned?
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Lippy I mapped it in an Excel spread sheet. If you PM me with your email, I can send it to you as an attachment if you like.
Each line in the series is named 10, 30, 50,,,, ect this is 10% load, 30% load, 50% load respectively.
Click on the thumb nail and it will open another window you can see it fairly well
Last edited by olddog; 07-08-2016 at 12:13 PM..
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07-09-2016, 07:40 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: St. Louisville,
Oh
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 67 427 cobra SB
Posts: 2,445
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Not Ranked
I decided to graph the same data with Advance on the Y axes and % Load on the X axes. There is a line (series) for 750 rpm, 1000 rpm, etc. You will notice that for 4000, 5000, and 6000 rpm the advance curve is identical, so the three lines are on top of each other and look like only one line. Also 90% load is pretty much WOT on a normally aspirated engine, but I left the boosted engine data as I find it interesting.
In my opinion this shows what the vacuum advance would do to the timing, as you opened the throttle. The previous graph in the previous post shows what the mechanical advance would do as the rpms increase. However with an EFI computer you have a different mechanical at every load and a different vacuum advance at every rpm.
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07-10-2016, 08:29 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Marcos california,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: 1989 KCC from South Africa Right Hand Drive
Posts: 1,601
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Not Ranked
Chuck the MSD......get an HE I with vacuum......
Hey ......All the automotive engine designers add ignition advance at light throttle.....why wouldn't you?......are you smarter than the engineers...?
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07-12-2016, 01:17 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHANMADD
Chuck the MSD......get an HE I with vacuum......
Hey ......All the automotive engine designers add ignition advance at light throttle.....why wouldn't you?......are you smarter than the engineers...?
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Agree.
All street cars (including high performance) should have functional vacuum advance. |
07-21-2016, 08:43 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naracoorte,
SA
Cobra Make, Engine: CR Cobra 3169
Posts: 818
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Not Ranked
After reading that great article on manifold vacuum dizzy. I changed mine from ported to manifold vacuum. The idle is much better and throttle response is quicker as well. Next week it's going on the dyno so I'll be able to tell what the advance is doing. With no load it seems like a lot of advance as I rev it. But I guess it can't ping unless the engine is under load, and as there will be less vacuum the the advance should be less. It all makes sense now.
JD
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07-22-2016, 08:57 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
ct
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
Posts: 922
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by r67cat
I posted this a couple of years ago. Still relevant. Rick
Here is one of the best definitive articles on vacuum advance. I converted my 66 428FE from a non vacuum MSD back to a Ford dizzy with a Pertronix ignition and vacuum advance. Unless you are running your car at WOT, you should run vacuum as this article so perfectly explains. You will improve cooling at idle, drivability and plug fouling. Take your information from a power train engineer and not from a backyard hobbyist. Rick
Distributor Tuning and Theory - Part 1 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board |
Rick, this was an awesome thread! I have the MSD pro billet dist with no vacuum advance at all. I guess my thinking was same as the carb, Mechanical, no vac secondary's. Vac anything is for sissies with regular cars, not Hot-rods. I guess I may have to re-think this whole thing, especially since my car sees no track time at all, just aggressive street driving. Again, thanks for posting this very informative information.
Dave
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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07-24-2016, 11:03 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance 428 FE
Posts: 72
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Not Ranked
Dave, your welcome. Our cars are running the same power plant and I am sure your results like mine will confirm the science. That said, BB or Small block, short of a dedicated race car, vacuum advance should be the norm. Beautiful car by the way. Rick
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07-25-2016, 10:22 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
ct
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
Posts: 922
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Yes, you are probably right! How crazy is your cam and are you running an Aluminum flywheel? That might make some big differences for sure?
also, thanks for the compliment. Any pics of your car?
Dave
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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07-25-2016, 10:33 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tempe,AZ-High Point,NC,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #684, 482FE, Mike Mccluskey build
Posts: 2,520
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I thought the msd pro billet distributor had vacuum advance. Does it not.
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PRIDEnJOY
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07-26-2016, 12:09 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bay Area (Peninsula),
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 427, 427/487 side-oiler
Posts: 1,248
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65
I thought the msd pro billet distributor had vacuum advance. Does it not.
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Nope, it doesn't |
07-26-2016, 04:39 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,415
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65
I thought the msd pro billet distributor had vacuum advance. Does it not.
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They make one with a vac advance and one with a mechanical advance. |
07-26-2016, 09:17 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tempe,AZ-High Point,NC,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #684, 482FE, Mike Mccluskey build
Posts: 2,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins
They make one with a vac advance and one with a mechanical advance.
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What is your preference on the engines you build for street strip.
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PRIDEnJOY
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07-26-2016, 09:18 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,415
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Mechanical.
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07-26-2016, 01:45 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tempe,AZ-High Point,NC,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #684, 482FE, Mike Mccluskey build
Posts: 2,520
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I'm confused now. Lol. Blykins likes mechanical. I'll go with his recommendation.
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07-26-2016, 02:03 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,415
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Not Ranked
Whatcha confused about?
MSD has a Pro Billet distributor with mechanical advance and they also have a Pro Billet distributor with vacuum advance, set up to run without an ignition box.
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07-26-2016, 02:44 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,000
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Not Ranked
Isn't the only MSD distributor that fits an FE, and has a vacuum advance unit on it, that funky "Ready to Run" job that they have?  |
07-26-2016, 02:51 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,415
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I believe so. You could always run a Mallory or a factory Ford distributor if you wanted a vacuum advance. Or you could do it the way lippy does it.
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07-26-2016, 03:28 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tempe,AZ-High Point,NC,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #684, 482FE, Mike Mccluskey build
Posts: 2,520
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Not Ranked
What are the pros on not using vac advance??
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