496 Genesis, 11to1, Street Roller,725HP,680ftlbs

[Keithc8]

We just finished another FE built with a cast iron Genesis block, Scat cast steel crank, Scat 6.700 H-beam rods, JE pistons, 11 to 1 compression, mild solid roller for engine this size[266-272, .668/.668 lift, 112]. This engine had our CNC heads with the EdelbrockVictor intake and Erson rockers which the customer already had. What was neat about this engine is that maximum tourqe was at 4800 to 5000rpm's and peak horsepower[725] was at 6400rpm's but still made 705 at 6800rpm's. I believe with the Dove intake and a larger camshaft 750 to 760 HP would be no problem. Customer wanted to drive on the street and keep some tourqe in the engine but still make some good power. We have gotten 5 more cast iron blocks in and hope to have tham checked out and ready to go soon. We have three of these sold and two available. We have received six of our 10 Shelby blocks. These are all already sold but have four more shipping Friday and expect them next week. Shelby has been held up by Darton on the sleeves and this has delayed the blocks. I have one of the last four already sold for a engine build as well. Let me know if anyone needs one of these last three, one is a big 4.375 bore and two are 4.250 bore. We hope to have a complete Aluminum Genesis at PRI of the dyno for display. Thanks Keith Craft

[scottj]

Keith- what booth number @ PRI

[blykins]

Keith, you guys sell FE main cap girdles, right? How much are they?

[Keithc8]

I will try to find out what booth number Genesis guys will be at for everyone. I know Chris at Shelby said they would also be there. We do not have a booth at PRI ourselves, may try to in the future. We are there checking out the new machinery and talking to vendors that we deal with. We still have the girdles and we use them on every 390 or 428 we think might make 550HP or better to keep from splitting the blocks. The girdle runs 450.00 with all hardware and installing the work on the customers caps. Thanks Keith

[Slow Dawg]

Keith, when is the PRI show? I'll try to get the bosses to go up. If not, my wife and I will go.


Ron

[Tom Kirkham]

What were the torque numbers?

[Keithc8]

The PRI show is December 4,5,&6 in Indy. You have to pre-regester or go with someone who is already pre-regestered and show a business card. This show is for people in the performance industry to see all of the vendors and suppliers.
The 496FE had 675 ft/lbs tourqe at 4800RPM's and over 500 at 2500RPM's. This engine is going in a customers 66 Fairlane for street and show use. He might race it ever now and then. Thanks Keith

[TerrysSPF]

Keith: The Victor intake is too tall to go under a Cobra hood (isn't it??). What would the power figures look like if you swapped the Victor for the Vic Jr. or the RPM intakes?

[Keithc8]

I may have called the intake by the wrong name but it is the only single plane intake that Edelbrock makes for the FE. This intake is 3/8's inch taller than the Edelbrock Performer RPM. The engine would probably have lost about 30 horsepower but gained some tourqe down low which it did not need. We have made some real good power with the Perfomer RPM intake, it seems to work real well. Thanks Keith

[percy]

Could someone advise if Genesis is really producing FE Aluminum blocks as of now. I seem to have read that the company is out of business, sold, that there are problems with lost customer deposit money and so forth.

The Genesis website sems to have disappeared and no contact numbers seem available. I realize I am behinjd the curve on this issue but would like to know.

thanks

[SCOBRAC]

Still no pictures.

[RICK LAKE]

Keithc8 What stroke are you using on the crank with a 6.7 rod? The pin hole in the piston, is it in the oil rings? I know everyone wants a longer stroke for there motors and more piston speed with longer time at TDC. I don't see anyone running a 4.25 crank and 6.535 rods. Is this a bad compo? You still have a long rod motor with good power. Do you bore the block out to 4.28 and use BB chevy pistons? You would have to check the deck height. Most guys seem to build a 4.125 crank with 6.535 or 6.700 rods. You can get alot more rpm out of this motor but it has to give up hp and tork down low in the 2-3000 rpm. Hope you had a good trip to Indy Rick Lake

[Keithc8]

When you use the 4.250 stroke you can use a 6.700 or 6.800 rod lenght. The pin does not go into the pin hole with either rod. We use the 6.700 mostly because it uses a 2.335 compression height and this works real well on the street. Most people are not turning these engines above 6500 anyway with a hydraulic roller or a dual plain intake. This just gives you a bigger engine with more power and tourqe. If a guy want to turn the engine high RPM's like a all out race engine then you may want to look at a shorter stroke but the 4.250 can be turned 7500 to 7600 with the right head and intake combo with a solid roller. why run the shorter rod when the longer rod gives you a better rod angle, makes the cylinders have less load on them, the piston less likely to rock around and does not pull it as far down the cylinder. The piston is also lighter where there is not much difference in the weight of the rod. We custom design and order all of our pistons for each customers application. They come from the piston company with this customers name on the order. what may be best for one customer will not be best for another customer. You would spend to much time messing with a big block Chevy piston because of the wrong valve location and compression height. Just build it right and you will not have to mess with any of this stuff. These are just my opinions and the way we do things. Thanks Keith

[RICK LAKE]

KeithC Keith You are talking about no skirt or little skirt on your pistons. I work for GM and this piston design has problems LS1 has piston slapping or knocking when cold the noise will stop after 2-3 minutes. There is no skirts to stop this and with low tension rings it adds to the problem I have pulled apart motors with 60,000 miles on them and the cylinder walls are grooved and have cylinder leak down. They went to a coated piston to stop the rock in the cylinder. It is bonded on the skirt and fixes the problem until it wears off and you have the same problem again. If I was pulling apart the motor every year and rebuild I could see the not skirt piston and live with the looseness. I donot want to do this. I pull the rocker shafts each winter,new oil in the motor, fog it till it stalls, seal the intake and exhaust, put moisture bags in pipes. jack off the ground on jack stands. fresh coolant in the motor 50/50 mix. I see you go with JE pistons, are you a dealer or quick turn time for each order you send? I am looking at pistons that I can get coatings on for the skirts and the tops. The motor I have now has this done. It may not add HP or Tork but it stops wear on the walls and detonation on the piston tops. I will only turn 6250 with the next motor. I cobra will not stand for more than 550 hp and 650 tork and still be as driviable. on the street. Not saying that you can't but 800 hp in the car but short lived motor and wear and tear. I have seen what more power does, I find that sometimes less is better. If I want to go faster a can put the 6 spd back in the car. 5spd with 3.31 seems the way to go. Thanks for your knowledge on FE's Rick Lake

[Keithc8]

We have seen no problems or extra were with the 1.335 style compression height that we are running. There a lot of things that go into the piston design. What style cam profile is on the skirt, what alloy the piston is made with, the piston to wall clearance that is used, how the lenght of the skirt is desinged and what clearance is built in above the top ring as well as where the rings are placed. We are talking about things that affect each other. There are good and bad things to every design and every engine. The Ls1 and Ls6 might have a little piston slap on call starts and this may be due to the design of the piston and not only the compression height. Those engines run real well so they must be doing something right. as far as getting pistons we can get you about any design you want. We are the largest JE Ford piston dealer in the country so we can get you a real nice custom set of pistons. The custome pistons will run about 659.00 for a dish plus 32.00 for the pin fitting and 80.00 for a standard style pin. I run a .990X2.930 pin in the big block stuff because there is a lot better choice in pins. When you run the .975 Ford diameter you really limit your self on the pin selection plus this is what size comes in the BB Chevy rods. We then send of and get the coatings done for the top and skirts. This will generaly run about 160.00 to 200.00 depending on the pistons. Hope this helps a little. Thanks Keith

[danc30]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

We just finished another FE built with a cast iron Genesis block, Scat cast steel crank, Scat 6.700 H-beam rods, JE pistons, 11 to 1 compression, mild solid roller for engine this size[266-272, .668/.668 lift, 112]. This engine had our CNC heads with the EdelbrockVictor intake and Erson rockers which the customer already had. What was neat about this engine is that maximum tourqe was at 4800 to 5000rpm's and peak horsepower[725] was at 6400rpm's but still made 705 at 6800rpm's. I believe with the Dove intake and a larger camshaft 750 to 760 HP would be no problem. Customer wanted to drive on the street and keep some tourqe in the engine but still make some good power. We have gotten 5 more cast iron blocks in and hope to have tham checked out and ready to go soon. We have three of these sold and two available. We have received six of our 10 Shelby blocks. These are all already sold but have four more shipping Friday and expect them next week. Shelby has been held up by Darton on the sleeves and this has delayed the blocks. I have one of the last four already sold for a engine build as well. Let me know if anyone needs one of these last three, one is a big 4.375 bore and two are 4.250 bore. We hope to have a complete Aluminum Genesis at PRI of the dyno for display. Thanks Keith Craft

How much would this setup cost today?

Do you have either an aluminum pond or shelby block in 428 FE or are they only available in 427 FE?

I talked to Tony today and he said only the 427s are available in aluminum from both shelby and pond, but I remember someone here posting that they had a KC 428 FE all aluminum motor.

I'm just trying to pin down what my motor will be. (already decided that you will build it for me) I Want either a 427 or 428 FE with approx 600 to 650 HP and TQ. It will go in a street rod that will see occasional runs down the quarter.

[FUNFER2]

I too would be interested in the cost. What a engine !

[Keithc8]

This engine would run about 19,000.00 complete of the dyno ready to install. Carburetor to oil pan with the distributor and wires with water pump. Thanks, Keith

[FUNFER2]

That's a good price for that monster motor.