Engine is in!!!!!!!!

[ng8264723]

Well had a few friends come over today and we put the engine in. Things went well until we tried the tranny. I used my snap on clutch alignment but it must have been off and I didn't try the tranny first. I put the engine in with the scattershield on. So now I have to align th clutch again. I'm hopingI can out the clutch fork in and pull the pressure plate off the clutch and slide the tranny in. Anyway, I'm getting closer
chris

[*13*]

Mine was a bear to get the trans to slide in. Of course another set of hands may have helped the issue... But I remember the trans looked lined up going in but it really wasn't. Once I went in straight it was pretty easy.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

I used my snap on clutch alignment but it must have been off and I didn't try the tranny first. I put the engine in with the scattershield on. So now I have to align th clutch again.

That sounds strange. But, if you happen to have TKO600 behind an FE, the spline on the driven disk, with most clutch alignment tools, does not fit perfectly with the pilot bearing (because you're really using a Chevy driven disk and tool, but you've got a Ford pilot bearing). Mike Forte makes a tool that fits perfectly, though. That's the only way I could make sense of your clutch slipping out of alignment, either that or you have the wrong transmission.

[Three Peaks]

A trick I learned that works "most" of the time and saves some time- while someone is lining up the tranny and ready to slip it into the pilot bushing, have someone push in the clutch pedal so the disk can move a bit. Usually, if you are close with the tranny shaft nose, the loose clutch disk will let you make the final little adjustment and slip it in.

Bob

[patrickt]

I remembered this thread from when elmariachi was having trans/FE install problems. http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/fe-talk/95556-427-fe-tko-600-mating-question.html#post930732

ng8264723, you really need to pay attention to this because it can be a really big f***ing deal. The trick is that there can be a problem with the length (and mating) of the input shaft and the bell housing. Sometimes you have to remove almost four tenths of an inch from the pilot end. If you don't, and the lengths are wrong, you can kiss the thrust bearing goodbye. In fact, I woke up in the middle of the night and thought of this and added it the list of things RodKnock doesn't know.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

In fact, I woke up in the middle of the night and thought of this and added it the list of things RodKnock doesn't know.

I know all about it, but from a global perspective. Patrick is correct. What you're doing is critical to the future of your car and that is why I paid a highly trained professional to drop and align my engine and tranny. I wasn't about to take any chances. Way too important. Chris, good luck.

Patrick, I'm not sure what to think about you waking up in the middle of the night and thinking about me. Sounds like you should seek professional guidance.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Patrick, I'm not sure what to think about you waking up in the middle of the night and thinking about me. Sounds like you should seek professional guidance.

I did. Remember I was invited not to return. What I don't know is whether or not it is practical to check crankshaft end play with the engine in the Cobra. I think he might be able to put the dial indicator on the front of the engine, move the crank back and forth as much as possible, and measure the end play, and then do it all again after he has the trans installed. If the numbers changed significantly (by going down out of spec) that would tell him that he's got a problem with his input shaft.

[ng8264723]

Geez guys it's not really a big deal to put a tranny in. I just ran out of time the other day. I have done dozens of trans installs! I will line it up and install it sat. I just don't have a lot of time lately to work on the car

[car4jim]

A couple of turns on the from damper/crackshaft with a 1/2 drive socket and ratchet is usually enough to get he pilot shaft to pop in. Pull down on the wrench vs sideways or you might torque the frame off the jackstands. That would hurt!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by car4jim

A couple of turns on the from damper/crackshaft with a 1/2 drive socket and ratchet is usually enough to get he pilot shaft to pop in. Pull down on the wrench vs sideways or you might torque the frame off the jackstands. That would hurt!

He posted an updated thread about the pilot bearing being machined cattywampus.

[ng8264723]

I'm going today to my shop to install the tranny. I'll update the post in a few days.
Patrick,
The pilot bearing hasn't nothing to do with my clutch alighment issue. I fixed that before I installed the engine. I just didn't line up the clutch in the PP corectly when I was installing the pp. I think what happened is my Snap On clutch alighment tool bottomed out on the pilot bearing and therefore the hub didn't center the clutch. I was trying to move quick since I had a few guys there to help guide the motor in. It went in beautifully with 3 guys! The car was on casters when I installed the engine. It has to be th easiest engine install I have ever done. The casters allowed for fine tuning. Essentially we moved the car around the engine

[patrickt]

OK, just so long as you're aware of the thrust bearing issue. I can think of at least two times in the last couple of years where guys ran in trouble on that point and ended up having to re-do it all. If I can remember two, there's bound to be a few more.

[ng8264723]

Patrick,
That is actually a very good point. I will definately check that
Chris

[PANAVIA]

In addition to trained persons- being able to measure parts for how straight and parallel they are is a good thing as well.

Checking parts as they come in, getting parts form good suppliers, double checking fit and finish are all parts of the paradigm to generate the hermeneutic that is the Cobra Drivetrain.

The trained first eye, and the capable QA second eye are keys to this , checking motions and specs along the way doesnt hurt ether..


--Steve

[ng8264723]

I do check everything.
As far as suppliers the crank was from KC and the bearing from Summit
I challenge a lot of people here. Be honest how many have checked their pilot bearings?
I have been building cars for years. I know what I'm doing and I check everything before it goes togethere. I have built quite a few cars. I actually like the build process more than the driving!!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

I challenge a lot of people here. Be honest how many have checked their pilot bearings?

I will answer truthfully: "Never. Just stick the new one in and forget about it." I have used wet toilet paper to pop the old one out though.

[ng8264723]

Thanks for being honest Patrick.
That's my point no one checks them!!
The bearing was at the max run out for a scattershield .005. Therefore if the scattershield was out at all it would throw the whole tranny off
The problem is parts were once made correctly. Know it seems quality control sucks. I bought a balanced rotating assembly from KC. They missed the crank issue as well.

[ng8264723]

I posted this in the main forum but I also thought it would be proper here. Kirkham's had the same problem. This is from the Kirkham build thread. I didn't read this before I did mine. They did the same thing I did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
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And now we run into our first major problem! I should have known the FE gods were going to get me back when dialing in the bell housing was so easy (see below). We actually put the pilot bearing in after we dialed in the bell housing but it doesn't matter when you do it.

Anyway, the hole in the Scat crankshaft is TOO BIG! It was machined wrong by Scat. When we tried to put the pilot bearing in--it just FELL in. The hole in the crank measured 1.860 inches and the bearing measures 1.852 inches. Thinking we need about a 0.002 inch interference fit, that means the crank was machined 0.010 inches over sized.


So, the master machinist Sandwich trimmed 0.200 inches off the outside diameter of the pilot bearing and then machined an aluminum sleeve to go over the outside of the bearing and bring it back up to the proper 1.862 inch outside diameter. Sandwich is to the lathe what Jason Bell is to a Stradivarius.




Here is the pilot bearing we use: Part number SKF B50-HD Sorry the picture is blurry, but the box is blurry.

__________________
President

[big-boss]

In all my stuff I use bronze/ brass pilot bushings. Seems like I always screw up the bearing ones.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by patrickt

almost four tenths of an inch

That's .400" for the technical guys. ;-)

Tell a machinist "four tenths" and you're looking at .0004".....LOL