I can't stand Ma. As my car nears completion I now facing the real possibility I may

[ng8264723]

have to sell it b/c I can't register it. There is no way it will pass the MAC center BS they need. Check this out. I guess i should of lloked into this first. I just didn't see it coming

Massachusetts defines crate engines as “new” even when they reflect 1965-era technology, and a vehicle with one installed must be brought up to 2009 standards with catalytic converters and other equipment. Likewise, if a vintage engine is used, say a 1990 302 Mustang donor, all the equipment in the original 1990 Mustang configuration must be added to the Roadster, like EGR, catalytic converters, vapor canister, air pump and (probaby) the stock manifold.



In Massachusetts, since the year of the car is, in effect, defined by the engine, a 1965 replica can only be licensed as such with a vintage 1965 engine and matching engine IDs. It is therefore extremely difficult to qualify as a classic or antique car that is not subject to emission restrictions (that is, grandfathered) in Massachusetts unless a pre-1970 engine is installed first.

A bill (called "SEMA" legislation because it mirrors other bills passed under lobbying pressure from SEMA) was passed by the Massachusetts legislature but vetoed by Governor Patrick. There are current attempts underway to pass a SEMA-like bill again and avoid another veto.

If you must register the vehicle in MA, I recommend you fully understand all the regulations. Other Massachusetts-based builders can also provide guidance ... you might try also posting in the NE regional forum.

[charlandk]

I feel your pain. I have been looking and ready to buy a cobra (backdraft) for the past month or so, but I am holding off until I know that I will be able to register and pass inspection with it. The dealer has told me he can have it titled as a 1965, but Mass will not accept that with the new crate motor that I want. If anyone has any recent experience with this problem, please let us know.

Thanks all!

[Jim Werth]

Can you put a junkyard motor in then change it after registration? Jim

[ng8264723]

It has to be a complete powertrain out of a used car
chris

[kgs365]

Chris

I would at least try to go through the process..a lot depends on the MAC center you pick and the inspectors you get. some better then others...I'm having a 390 FE rebuilt out of a 1971 pick up truck because of this problem..they are supposedly close to getting this put in front of patrick again with some tweaks requested by the EPA...so we will see ...but it certainly puts a hamper on the hobby...thats why i told you to save paying the sales tax to Mass until you know you have a chance at registering it.

[ChuckG]

Look into getting an address in New Hampshire and register it there. Also no sales tax.
Chuck

[Excaliber]

I'm not recommending anything here, just sharing what life was like in Hawaii until a few years ago...

No way you could legally register a replica of anything on Ohau. Porsche, Dune Buggies, Cobra's etc. And yet, a handful of the hardcore figured out, in various ways, how to get-r-done. Independantly from each other, not knowing each other, but eventually we found each other. We came out at night mostly, never more than two of us cruised together, all very hush hush.

It took us a couple of years to get a SEMA like bill passed, but we did manage. Literally writing letters, shaking hands, meeting with politico's, greasing palms, whatever it took.

[ng8264723]

Excaliber,
I don't have the time or energy for that approach. LAtely, I work 80+ hours of OT and I have two houses I'm taking care of. If it's that bad it will be sold and replaced with a Ferrari/Pantera or a ford gt. In other words a car that I won't have paperwork issues. I can deal with the mechanical issues!

[bobcowan]

When you saty, "Complete Drive Train", what does that mean? Engine and trans? Diff?

If it's engine and trans, I don't see that as a big problem. It's more hassle, time, and expense, but not an insurmountable problem. Cruise the bone yards until you find what you need from a early 70's car, and pull that.

But, you do make an excellent point. Before making solid plans or spending a penny, I went down to my local state inspections station, and talked with the guy in charge. I told him what my plans were, and show him some pics. He helped me modify my plan a little bit. When it came time for inspection, I got easily certified as a '65, because that is what the engine represented.

[ng8264723]

Well, as I said I don't have the time or energy to pull the beuatiful 482 and tko out and install a boneyard engine. I will sell it and buy something I can drive. I will try to go through the process and see what happenes. I'm a little nervous about titling it out of state. I don't know what the legal issues would be.
chris

[kgs365]

Chris

you may at least want to take the time to go talk to an inspector. The car is going to be hard to sell without being titled and registered in your name...Its probably still in Kirkhams name on the origin paperwork?....which may make it difficult to transfer to another person or state?...your already in it...keep digging if it was easy there would be a lot more on the road!

[Don]

Not the expert, but registering a vehicle in one state and then principally garaging in another state, might/could/will/would etc ., void the insurance if there is a claim. One reason, the rate and liability risk is based upon the state and portion of the state the vehicle is registered in. Don't recall if there is a cross reference to the state registered in vs. the state the owner has a drivers license. Then comes the need for a mailing address.

States also have the requirements for registering in the state where the vehicle is garaged, one reason being taxes. When relocating, states normally allow " X " months to obtain a new drivers license and registration.

Other opinions ?

[Excaliber]

Titling out of state was one way it worked in Hawaii, "back in the day"...

Ya just drive it real careful like.

[vegasmike]

I have heard of a very different route, but looks interesting. Form a Montana LLC and have the LLC own the car and get it registered in Montana. The Kirkhams may know of this, but I heard it from Gear 6 Performance. You might also want to check the Insurance vendor that advertises on this sight as I think they have had some experience with this as well.

Good Luck.

[Gunner]

Not to second guess you, but lots of states will go by the year of the engine as the benchmark for smog requirements etc. In all the process of buying a Kirkham, did you never look into MA's requirements before you bought a crate engine?

(My ERA was first registered in MA, so I have the original owner's paperwork that establishes the block as being a salvaged 1966. It's not a new rule... and ONLY the block is original, not the complete engine, trans, diff or "complete drive train.")

I agree that stuffing a "legal" engine in it to get it registered is the simplest and most straightforward option.

[Don]

A few years ago in CT, a group of hobbyists and businesses , were able to have legislation passed that exempted " kit cars ", formally referred to in CT as Composites, from emissions testing and requirements. This was a separate endeavor from the SEMA type legislation.

Prior to the exempt status, the only original engine that was acceptable was a documented original pre-1966 block, the cutoff where the emissions hardware etc was added to the manufactured cars. Each year as additional emissions systems were added, the emissions testing had to comply, by year of the engine block.

[Trueoo7]

When the snowbirds who have residences up north, go down to Florida and live for 6+ months, I don't think they change their registrations and insurance every year.....

[Ronbo]

Convert it to propane or natural gas.

You can move down here to Florida, but it has to be an even swap, say two Prius drivers.

[kobrabytes]

In Utah we have a new law that allows you to register the car as the year it replicates.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by kobrabytes

In Utah we have a new law that allows you to register the car as the year it replicates.

It's an inverse relationship between a location's convenience of regulation and law and the inherent desirability of living there.