Mechanical differences between Kirkham & CSX4000

lloyds1 · #1 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 03:13 PM

I would like to know what the mechanical differences are between the two.

For example, suspension, brakes, frame, controls, seats, foot box, roll bar, etc.....

Also, are there any visual differences between them body/stance wise?

Thanks!

Gunner · #2 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 04:14 PM

Well-intended comment withdrawn. Abject apologies to all those offended.

Jamo · #3 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 04:19 PM

Oh well, hell, no sense anyone who owns a Kirkham (or a CSX) or is from Kirkham (or Shelby) answering this question...

lloyds1 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 04:45 PM

Did I miss something?

4pipes · #5 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 05:03 PM

There have been many variations from both manufactures, so it depends on which vintage you care to examine. There was a time when the Kirkham roller was used as the starting point for the Shelby. I really don't know how the two compare today.

patrickt · #6 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 05:24 PM

lloyds1, I have no idea why no one will properly respond to your question. Hopefully, someone will. In the meantime, it might help you to look over the Kirkham faq http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/faq/index.html and to read the PDF billet book http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/book_aoe/

Jamo · #7 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 05:26 PM

Not really.

There are more than a few differences in aluminum CSXs and Kirkhams, but those differences depend quite a bit on how your order the rollers. Electric wiring is different, transmission mounts, brake and coilover fitments differ, and, of course, the materials used and the amount of adjustments of the suspension pieces themselves differ, depending on how they are ordered. Seats, carpeting, interior materials...all differ depending on sourcing. CSXs come usually come with fuel bladders while Kirkhams come with road race tanks.

Finally, and the biggest difference of all...you work directly with the mfg when you get a Kirkham vs. working with a dealer when you get a CSX, so much will depend on how you order through the dealer in the latter instance.

I would suggest you talk with both the Kirkhams and the folks at Shelby (or a dealer) to see what they offer, and then seek input from owners of both to determine what options you might want. I would visit Provo and Vegas (and I did before i made my choice).

Those are my comments...hopefully you'll get some input from others with hands-on experience of either or both marques.

4pipes · #8 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 06:32 PM

Well that was informative.

patrickt · #9 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4pipes

Well that was informative.

I'll say. I can piss on an SPF and we'll have eight to ten pages of posts.

kris-kincaid · #10 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 07:52 PM

That's not true. Shelby bought the body/chassis with all the closeout panels and footboxes. The rest is installed at the Shelby shops. I was there when Shelby first started buying from Kirkham

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4pipes

There was a time when the Kirkham roller was used as the starting point for the Shelby..

Allan A · #11 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 09:43 PM

Kris is right night and day.

Allan

RodKnock · #12 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 09:53 PM

The standard Kirkham gauges are these:

http://www.thomaskirkham.com/

You can spend more and get Smiths. Shelby has their own gauges.

Kirkham's come standard with a Kwik Wire wiring harness, but again, you can probably order a wiring harness more authentic.

To me, they're very different.

I'm bummed, I missed Gunner's comment.

Excaliber · #13 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 09:55 PM

It IS a complex comparison with no simple answer, there are to many variables.

...not to mention the glass cars, which the K brothers don't even do!

RodKnock · #14 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 10:06 PM

Another difference. From what I understand, the CSX alloy roller is about $120,000 and a well-optioned Kirkham roller is $57,000. The Kirkham roller is unpainted and comes in a rough file finish. The CSX alloy roller is painted.

Ernie is right. WAY too complicated and I doubt anyone here knows all, or even most, of the differences. Even the early CSX's and Kirkham's are completely different than their respective later brethren.

Excaliber · #15 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 10:18 PM

We need a new thread, what is the difference between a glass Shelby and an SPF? Now THAT should be a little easier to nail down, after you wade through the 8 to 10 pages of arguing as Pat noted would be the case...

lloyds1 · #16 (**permalink**) 03-31-2010, 10:27 PM

huh, i didn't realize how different they are, interesting....

Jamo · #17 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 02:00 AM

Not that different...the basic structure and construction are there, other than a few items such as the transmission mounts (both came up with ways to fit something other than a toploader) or the dashboard uprights on the tunnels (Shelby started making theirs removable). Again, as I noted above...it's more a matter of fitments/suppliers. Actually, you could end up with damn near identical cars if you optioned them both with that intent.

Kris worked at Shelby and has built both CSXs and Kirkhams...his word is gospel to those who know more about these damn things than sane folks should. I think a slight miscommunication needs to be assplained: As the term is commonly used, a "roller" is pretty much a complete chassis/body/interior needing an engine/trans/battery. While several Kirkham rollers have been used to create CSXs, as Kris points out, Shelby typically would get the basic Kirkham frame/body/footboxes, etc., and then finish them up depending on the typical Shelby specs of the time (electrics, for example, have changed). Dealers, of course, may add a few things of their own.

They share blood...one of them maintains their blood is a bit more royal. You can find Polish names signed on body panels on all of them.

patrickt · #18 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lloyds1

huh, i didn't realize how different they are, interesting....

There are a lot of other folks on this forum that could provide detailed answers -- I mean detailed answers and they could intelligently discuss the shortcomings of one car over the other. That can be done, but you're not going to get it. If you're seriously considering dropping a $100k on a car (and it sounds like you are), you absolutely must hop a plane and go visit the bros. in Provo. You will get answers "face to face" that you will never get on an open forum -- for a lot of reasons. Trust me, you need to take that plane ride....

lloyds1 · #19 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 07:37 AM

A visit to both shops would be the best thing to do for sure, just don't have the time at the moment. I'm going to visit a local Kirkham owner on Monday, so that should be a good start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

There are a lot of other folks on this forum that could provide detailed answers -- I mean detailed answers and they could intelligently discuss the shortcomings of one car over the other. That can be done, but you're not going to get it. If you're seriously considering dropping a $100k on a car (and it sounds like you are), you absolutely must hop a plane and go visit the bros. in Provo. You will get answers "face to face" that you will never get on an open forum -- for a lot of reasons. Trust me, you need to take that plane ride....

Jamo · #20 (**permalink**) 04-01-2010, 12:18 PM

Yes...which is why several of us have suggested that from the beginning, but include Vegas as well.

In fact, go to Vegas first...enjoy the nightlife after visiting the incubator, and then go to Provo to see them from overseas delivery to finishing touch...and sooth your leftover pounding head from the Vegas experience.

I also note that you're not exactly a newbie and you already own what appears to be a damn nice Cobra...so you might help folks here respond to you by sharing what you're looking for in terms of use, cost, etc. based on your experiences so far. Note also that you have more arruminum (if metal is going to be it) options at Kirkhams...289 Street, FIAs and whatever else you might conjur up. You want to spend a million? They can do that too.