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06-14-2010, 09:38 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Birmingham,
AL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 289 FIA, 363 Stroker
Posts: 751
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Not Ranked
Vote 428 or aluminum 427FE??
Before you vote, please read.
-I already have a 428 standard bore motor and a brand new 462 all forged stroker kit. However, the pistons will need to be replaced because Blank sent me +29cc custom pistons. I want around a 10:1 compression ratio and these pistons will provide around 9:1 without decking a lot of material off the block deck.
-I have an offer for 800.00 on the 428fe block.
So, i could technically sell the 428 and purchase a machined shelby aluminum 427 block and be out an extra 5600-Plus the cost of new pistons of course, but that is kind of wash since i will need to replace them for the 428 as well if i use it.
So, is it worth the extra 5600 for the 427FE aluminum block in the long run? The 427 will be a 482 with the stroker kit. Do you think that i will get that extra 5-6gs out of the car if i sell it in the future, or would i be better off with building the 428 as a 462 stroker?
Last edited by RestoCreations; 06-21-2010 at 10:08 AM..
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06-14-2010, 10:23 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boston,
MA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 361
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Not Ranked
personal opinion
stick with the 428FE...save your money...if its built correctly, and looks period correct...i dont think its worth spending the extra $4 to 5K...other people will happy spend your money...performance wise it will be the same...if you have the cash go ahead...
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06-14-2010, 10:27 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4000; Shelby aluminum FE with 58mm IDAs
Posts: 1,116
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Not Ranked
It's not an insignificant investment, but the aluminum 427 FE is my vote.
You're completing the Ironman Kirkham Cobra--not sure you want to skimp on the engine.
Additionally, I believe most of the Kirkham 427 cars have aluminum FE or vintage 427 FE SO engines installed (so the 428-based engine could detract from your car if you ever go to sell it).
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06-14-2010, 10:27 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oakham,
Ma
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 592
Posts: 578
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Not Ranked
You are beeter off to call BARRY and get a iron Genesis block. You will only have to pay $3,000 after you sell the 428. You don't need the alum Shelby block. Call Barry and discuss
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06-14-2010, 10:30 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Williamsport,
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: Kellison Stallion 468 FE
Posts: 2,703
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Not Ranked
ditto on the genesis block from barry.......
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06-14-2010, 10:34 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bethesda,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 6022, navy blue, period correct 427 SO
Posts: 2,154
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Not Ranked
427 over 428, whether iron or aluminum. But personally I'd go with aluminum on a new block.
__________________
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”
www.partskeeper.com
(Less time searching, more time wrenching & driving)
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06-14-2010, 10:39 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,591
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Not Ranked
Here's my very humble opinion. And I've said this before on this forum.
You would be settling with the 428. First, an aluminum FE can be made to look period correct. Just paint it, though I wouldn't. Also, the car will feel differently when driving (read BETTER) and faster with 100-125 lbs removed from the front end. The CSX and Pond aluminum blocks are beautiful pieces.
The Kirkham is one of the lightest Cobras on the market. It's aluminum and the engines should be too.
I can't remember if you mentioned this previously or not, but if you're opting to get the optional original-type suspension from Kirkham, then maybe the weight benefit of an aluminum FE would be a little less important.
People spend anywhere from $4,000-$10,000 on Webers to EFI, but for $5,000-$5,500, you can remove 100-125 lbs from your car and get a similar benefit.
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06-14-2010, 11:12 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eagle,
Ne.
Cobra Make, Engine: 1966 Lone Star 427SC.
Posts: 4,307
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Not Ranked
It depends, if money doesn't matter, you'll have bragging rights with the Shelby. If not, I'm building a Genseis Iron 527 side oiler so I'm happy with a side oiler being in my Cobra, I'm sure you will too.
I do have a Shelby timming chain cover and water pump I got a great deal on. I guess that's my,......bragging rights.
__________________
Regards,
Kevin
Last edited by FUNFER2; 06-14-2010 at 11:14 AM..
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06-14-2010, 11:19 AM
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Abnormal CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pottstown (East Coventry),
PA
Cobra Make, Engine: Don't think I'll be getting a Cobra for a long time... Do have '94 RX-7 R2.
Posts: 2,330
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNFER2
It depends, if money doesn't matter, you'll have bragging rights with the Shelby. If not, I'm building a Genseis Iron 527 side oiler so I'm happy with a side oiler being in my Cobra, I'm sure you will too.
I do have a Shelby timming chain cover and water pump I got a great deal on. I guess that's my,......bragging rights.
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What would "Iron Man" think of putting an "Aluminum" motor in his car? I suspect that even though there is something sentimental about the "Iron" block, I think Tony Stark likes his toys and would have the bucks to go for the lighter "Aluminum" one.
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06-14-2010, 11:21 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Diego,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,979
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Not Ranked
Go with the 427 Genesis or aluminum.
__________________
Remember, It's never too early to start beefing up your obituary.
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06-14-2010, 11:24 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eagle,
Ne.
Cobra Make, Engine: 1966 Lone Star 427SC.
Posts: 4,307
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Not Ranked
It depends, if money is not a problem, have George Anderson & team build you a Shelby engine. I think they build the majority of these engines. He's also a Shelby continuation series dealer.
If not, build a Genesis 427. I'm building 527 iron block from them. I did get a great deal with a Shelby timing cover and water pump, I guess them and the side oiler, are my,.....bragging rights.
__________________
Regards,
Kevin
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06-14-2010, 11:47 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Eagle,
Ne.
Cobra Make, Engine: 1966 Lone Star 427SC.
Posts: 4,307
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra
What would "Iron Man" think of putting an "Aluminum" motor in his car? I suspect that even though there is something sentimental about the "Iron" block, I think Tony Stark likes his toys and would have the bucks to go for the lighter "Aluminum" one.
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lol, I agree.
One thought.
When ever Carroll passes away (truly a sad day)
If you have any brand of cobra, (other than a original) would having a Shelby aluminum engine, sell faster and for more money ?
Shelby continuation series (metal) $$$$$$
Shelby continuation (glass) $$$$
Kirkham-$$
My Lone Star (-) $ (just kidding Brian)
__________________
Regards,
Kevin
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06-14-2010, 11:49 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
As Stentor noted, you are building the Ironman Kirkham. Arruminum.
It will run cooler, be able to run at a slightly higher compression on available gas, provides better handling...and you will get your money back if you sell it.
Just do it.
BTW...good on ya for asking these types of questions ahead of time.
__________________
Jamo
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06-14-2010, 11:57 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jacksonville,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #570 w Shelby FE
Posts: 1,009
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Not Ranked
Another option would be the Pond aluminum block. Keep in mind the Shelby block also requires special studs which add an extra $400~500.
It's not an "original" 60's car, so why anyone would want to fool around with 40+ year old blocks with God knows what wrong with them...
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06-14-2010, 12:08 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
Ronbo, that's easy, because an older block has soul. Hog wash an older block is any more risky than a new block. Either new or old, if it aint checked out and finished properly it will bite you. I've seen the pictures of a Shelby block with a rod sticking out the side. New anything offers no gaurantee it will always be perfect, there is risk, no matter how you cut it.
If I couldn't find a decent side oiler block, I'd go Genesis, keep's the cost down and either way is an excellent choice from a ROI point of view. Shelby block? Eh, nice call, but I don't think it will return enough in re-sale to warrant the additional expense. Now if your buying it because YOU want to have one, thats cool.
428 is not an option unless your really strapped for cash, then what the heck, consider a 390!
Last edited by Excaliber; 06-14-2010 at 12:11 PM..
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06-14-2010, 12:51 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Avon,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: 1969 Mustang Fastback Pro-Street, constantly changing ongoing project!
Posts: 746
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Not Ranked
If you just want (& can afford) aluminum, get an aluminum block. If it were me I would run the block & pistons you already have. Deck the block & on with the build. Have the block drilled for cross bolt mains & you are all set for a monster Iron block stroker.
I think Ironman would say aluminum is for whimps........
__________________
Mick
(Of The Troops & For The Troops)
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body; but rather a skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "WOW, WHAT A RIDE!"
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06-14-2010, 12:55 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,591
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber
If I couldn't find a decent side oiler block, I'd go Genesis, keep's the cost down and either way is an excellent choice from a ROI point of view. Shelby block? Eh, nice call, but I don't think it will return enough in re-sale to warrant the additional expense. Now if your buying it because YOU want to have one, thats cool.
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IF you can find a decent side-oiler block....That's a BIG IF. Let's say you find one. You're talking about $5G's, maybe more. KC has a few lying around the shop, but it will cost you.
Personally, I would rather have modern machining and (aluminum) metals.
In terms of ME being a future buyer, a Cobra with cast iron block would need to be properly discounted for the fact that I would need to tear it out of there to replace it with aluminum.
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06-14-2010, 01:14 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Birmingham,
AL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 289 FIA, 363 Stroker
Posts: 751
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Not Ranked
I think you that voted for aluminum are right. Why build a 427 cobra with a 428, regardless of how many actually came with a 427.
Anyway, if i am going aluminum, im going with a Shelby block. I know it will end up costing another 1500 in the end, but I want the CS on the front of the block. I already have the CS aluminum waterpump and timing cover.
Thanks for talking some sense into me. I hope the offer still stands on the 428fe. I thought it was worth a little bit more than 800 since it is a standard bore block, but times have changed.
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06-14-2010, 01:43 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sacramento,Ca.,
Ca.
Cobra Make, Engine: Midstates (2001)
Posts: 1,724
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Not Ranked
Waite a second here....why is the 9.5 compression such a bad thing???
9.5 in a 428 sounds like a motor that will live a long time and put out
great HP....enough to propel that Kirkham into....the twilight zone...
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06-14-2010, 03:30 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Driftwood,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Cobra, 427 side oiler
Posts: 1,850
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Not Ranked
Maybe its just me, but the Ironman Cobra needs a true-to-life iron block of the 427 variety. Like this one.
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