Vote 428 or aluminum 427FE??

[Excaliber]

Oh yeah, Boghosian. Now THAT guy sounds like one of the best around, compared to anybody!!

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I'm not sure, but I suspect the Shelby heads ARE Ebrocks with a "name". Nice name, if your willing to pay for it.

Easy Ernie-they are not. Two different animals.

[Bernica]

Geeeez guys! I have CSX block #197. It's been great, but you guys make me worry about "early CSX blocks". Some oil issues, but I've owned FE's all my life and know that comes with the territory. Wouldn't have gone any other way.

[Jamo]

Don't worry, Bernica...he's still flushing Blue Hawaiians out of his system.

Ernie...try smoking some of the local Oregonian flora. It'll clear things up for you, buddy.

[Chilibit]

In six months, when you lift the hood, what do you want to see? What makes you smile? That is the one to get. I think you already know the answer.

[dcdoug]

Lots of Shelby blocks out there. There is a finite amount of NOS 427 blocks around though. Less and less each day.....

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Don't worry, Bernica...he's still flushing Blue Hawaiians out of his system.

Ernie...try smoking some of the local Oregonian flora. It'll clear things up for you, buddy.

Thanks Jamo! I'm better now...

[Excaliber]

Chilibit is right on target, what ever makes you smile when you pop the hood!

Now the original question suggested that for a mere $5,600 more one could move from an iron 428 to an alloy Shelby. Assuming some sales of parts, etc. etc. MY argument simply points out you might want to re-consider the math on the dollars. I say your looking at $26K, er, $30K before the Maui Wowi smoke clears with an alloy Shelby. Half that for an iron FE.

Return on investment was listed as a factor. The ROI looks better with an iron side oiler, a "real" one, not a modern one.

Just saying it's simple math.

ROI is not a factor for me, I'm in it for the long haul, no intention of selling anyway.

[Bernica]

IMHO, if you find a clean NOS 427 block, you're still gonna have to send it to Keith or Gessford, or someone as reputable on FE's, then you're going to pay for all the corrective machine work to get it right (yes, even on NOS blocks).
They don't do this stuff for free, so you should factor it in. I have seen NOS blocks that were close to trash once the FE guys looked at it.

[Mark Thompson]

Aluminum, for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. You will spend lots of $ by the time you are complete, make sure you are satisfied.

Mark

[RestoCreations]

Originally Posted by Bernica

IMHO, if you find a clean NOS 427 block, you're still gonna have to send it to Keith or Gessford, or someone as reputable on FE's, then you're going to pay for all the corrective machine work to get it right (yes, even on NOS blocks).
They don't do this stuff for free, so you should factor it in. I have seen NOS blocks that were close to trash once the FE guys looked at it.

Actually, keith craft has the NOS block and if i am actually going to purchase an aluminum block, then you are right, i should just purchase it directly from them.
-I already have the edelbrock heads and they are set up for the roller cam i purchased. What are the issues that some of you have faced with roller lifters-mentioned above?

-I have about 5500 invested in the parts so far. I figure in another 1,000-1500 for short block assembly, 5gs for a block, 1,000 for roller rockers and pushrods, 1,000 for intake and carb, and 1,000 for fuel supply, pulleys, etc. and the 400-500 for the studs. oh, and 600 for new pistons minus whatever i can sell the 428 pistons for. That totals around 15,000-16000 HOw are you all coming up with 30 grand?

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

There, fixed it for ya. There have been PLENTY of discussions concerning trouble with the Shelby blocks. Not to mention the big dollars required for additional machining AFTER you get the block. There is no end to how they can suck your wallet dry. But, there cool, if thats what you want, go for it. Typical Shelby build alloy block will run about $30,000 (ouch).

Per Kieth's site: $19,299 http://www.keithcraft.com/ourengines4.html

Put down the bong, you've had enough...

[Excaliber]

25 to 30 grand if you have a Shelby motor built by a top of the line shop with all the good stuff. I think you will find thats a pretty typical dollar amount. KC, Gessford, Boghosian ( ), builders of that caliber. They are others who will do it cheaper, with more risk of getting it right. That Eleanor Mustang with the leaking rear main comes to mind, but heck even THAT guy spent over $30K!

BIG savings can be had by sourcing the various parts here and there, when on sale, making a deal, finding the right stuff at the right price. It takes time and effort AND a good knowledge of what your looking for! Most folks are well advised to let their builder source the parts and do it "his way".

I sourced all my parts from Gessford, paid a little more for some things, about the same for others. The ADVICE that came with the parts was invaluable, I was GLAD to source it all from George just to get that! My pistons were pushing $1,000 by the time I had them in the engine (rings, pin's, special order piston pin height, dished to my spec's, etc.). I could have saved a bundle buying "off the shelf" ready to run pistons.

Solid roller cams have a limited life span on the street. All though some progress has been made with special (BIG dollar) oil pressure fed rollers it's still to "iffy" for me to go there again. Not to mention the on going issues with dist drive gears, bronze, fiber, steel, what??? Even the manufacturers seem to be struggling with that issue, STILL. I would say, 8 to 10,000 miles and replace the rollers, IF you get that far before your cam eats one. Keep the idle rpm high, blip the throttle on occasion to 2,000 grand rpm or so when sitting at a stop light (keeps 'em oiled). It's tough to make 'em live but it can be done. Windage tray might cut the oil sling to the cam/lifter area, possibly starving them for oil at typical street rpm's.

I spent about $4,000 on parts when I rebuilt mine. Most of my internals and the heads were good already. It was more like a "re-fresh".

[Excaliber]

Well KC is the cost leader when it comes to well built engines, he puts together a nice package. I see this $20K motor has E-brock stage 2 heads, things like that help control the cost. And the cost IS coming down, across the board for ALL FE's, NOS, original, iron, alloy, ALL of them.

Anyway you cut it, certainly more than an iron FE. ROI on that? Hmmm, depends on the future buyer.

I would bet there is not a guy on this sight with a Shelby block that cost less than Jamo's at $26K. I would venture most have $30K in them!

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

25 to 30 grand if you have a Shelby motor built by a top of the line shop with all the good stuff. I think you will find thats a pretty typical dollar amount. KC, Gessford, Boghosian ( ), builders of that caliber. They are others who will do it cheaper, with more risk of getting it right. That Eleanor Mustang with the leaking rear main comes to mind, but heck even THAT guy spent over $30K!

BIG savings can be had by sourcing the various parts here and there, when on sale, making a deal, finding the right stuff at the right price. It takes time and effort AND a good knowledge of what your looking for! Most folks are well advised to let their builder source the parts and do it "his way".

I sourced all my parts from Gessford, paid a little more for some things, about the same for others. The ADVICE that came with the parts was invaluable, I was GLAD to source it all from George just to get that! My pistons were pushing $1,000 by the time I had them in the engine (rings, pin's, special order piston pin height, dished to my spec's, etc.). I could have saved a bundle buying "off the shelf" ready to run pistons.

Solid roller cams have a limited life span on the street. All though some progress has been made with special (BIG dollar) oil pressure fed rollers it's still to "iffy" for me to go there again. Not to mention the on going issues with dist drive gears, bronze, fiber, steel, what??? Even the manufacturers seem to be struggling with that issue, STILL. I would say, 8 to 10,000 miles and replace the rollers, IF you get that far before your cam eats one. Keep the idle rpm high, blip the throttle on occasion to 2,000 grand rpm or so when sitting at a stop light (keeps 'em oiled). It's tough to make 'em live but it can be done. Windage tray might cut the oil sling to the cam/lifter area, possibly starving them for oil at typical street rpm's.

I spent about $4,000 on parts when I rebuilt mine. Most of my internals and the heads were good already. It was more like a "re-fresh".

Uhh, that's KC's price I posted.

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well KC is the cost leader when it comes to well built engines, he puts together a nice package. I see this $20K motor has E-brock stage 2 heads, things like that help control the cost. And the cost IS coming down, across the board for ALL FE's, NOS, original, iron, alloy, ALL of them.

Anyway you cut it, certainly more than an iron FE. ROI on that? Hmmm, depends on the future buyer.

I would bet there is not a guy on this sight with a Shelby block that cost less than Jamo's at $26K. I would venture most have $30K in them!

I paid $27k, for the engine, clutch, alum flywheel, TKO and MASS-Flo EFI from Kieth.

You sure don't embarrass easy, do you?

[Excaliber]

That sounds about right. Figure the Mass Flow at 5K. Trans, flwheel, clutch, 3K, which leaves about what KC is asking for a Shelby at current prices, $20K or so,,, for a basic build, with E-brock heads. Not a bad price, like I said, prices are falling ACROSS the board for ALL FE's.

You know, it wasn't "that long ago" when you couldn't find a side oiler block for less than $5K out of a boat that turned the wrong direction and needed massive machine shop work!! Now, KC has one on E-bay for $5K that is ready for assembly as is! THATS a really good price.

[JJCobra]

I went with the 428 and at the time was the right choice for me. This was 3.5 years ago and as a 32 year old with twin girls on the way, decided I couldn't justify the extra coin for braggin rights. I have a nice engine with all the goodies (Edelbrock, Erson, Avaiad, Pro Systems, etc.) built be FE Specialties. It has more hp than I'll ever have talent for and is so reliable it is almost boring. I selected this configuration with the thought that if I decided I needed to move up to the 427, all I would need is the new block and pistons. I don't have any intention of selling it, though with that said I know my resale value is not as high as those with the sideoiler based engines. One of these days when I have an extra $8k laying around I'll go ahead and move up to the Shelby block. Until then, I'll try to drive the piss out of my heavy boat anchor.

Jason

[Excaliber]

It's hard to say about the re-sale value JJCobra. OK those with a side oiler will bring more, more yet with a Shelby block. But again, look at the return on investment. Perhaps the 428 is the best all around deal? Some buyers will ONLY want a Shelby. Others will ONLY want a side oiler, a larger pool of buyers is likely with a 428 and a decent over all price. Any KMP is going to do well on re-sale regardless, some will just do better than others, but there is more up-front investment that offsets that.

[RestoCreations]

It's a seventies cast block from KC-something about that turns me off and i would rather buy a newer cat iron or aluminum block No offense to those of you that had your hay day back in the seventies, but i am in my thirties as well, and when i look at what came out of the seventies, besides me of course, i tend to shutter away from it,