Vote 428 or aluminum 427FE??

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Whenever I get around to it, I'll let you know what I dyno at. My build is similar to yours. Although my builder said it should make closer to 500hp and wasn't a BS type of guy. But the dyno will tell.

If I recall your heads are stock and unmodified like mine and you are at 11:1. No way that engine will make a true and honest 500 HP at the flywheel, in my opinion.

One of the reasons I went with the slightly more aggressive Comp 294S cam was in preparation for a later upgrade to stage 2 or 3 heads. I figured with upgraded heads I might get closer to 500 HP, which is the limit of what I would want in this car.

I know we are sorta hijacking this thread, but I suspect Resto has already made up his mind that he wants Shelby aluminum for his Ironman build.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Whenever I get around to it, I'll let you know what I dyno at. My build is similar to yours. Although my builder said it should make closer to 500hp and wasn't a BS type of guy. But the dyno will tell.

With the engine out of the car, no side pipes, and no belt on the pulleys, I'm pretty confident you would dyno at 500. So your engine builder speakum truthum....

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

If I recall your heads are stock and unmodified like mine and you are at 11:1.

Yes, that's right on heads and CR. I have the slightly larger "B" cam, not sure exactly how that compares to your's.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Yes, that's right on heads and CR. I have the slightly larger "B" cam, not sure exactly how that compares to your's.

My cam is 248/248 with .605 lift, which is a tad more lift than the "B" I believe

Originally Posted by patrickt

With the engine out of the car, no side pipes, and no belt on the pulleys, I'm pretty confident you would dyno at 500. So your engine builder speakum truthum....

I'll take that bet.

[Excaliber]

Bone stock high riser heads flow about 290 cfm. Compression ratio's of 12 or more were common for side oilers. Mine was 12.5 to 1 in fact.

Shelby may have improved his Stage II heads today, but his early heads flowed about 290 cfm, just like a stock high riser.

[RodKnock]

All this engine talk is making me anxious to build another engine. Please stop.

Nothwithstanding, the block will be either a Pond or CSX aluminum block.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

All this engine talk is making me anxious to build another engine. Please stop. Nothwithstanding, the block will be either a Pond or CSX aluminum block.

What a fitting post. Jamo should probably lock this thread right here and now.

[RodKnock]

Well, I for one would like to know what will eventually grace the engine compartment of the Ironman Kirkham.

Resto, have you purchased a block yet?

[Excaliber]

Rodknock, I know!!! I can hardly wait for my engine to blow so I can get in there and make some more mods.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I'll take that bet.

He has a similar build to mine; I make 450 on the dyno with pipes and belts on, and I think with all that stuff off I could put my nose in to the fives.... I think he could too. But I wouldn't bet more than a C-Note on it....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Rodknock, I know!!! I can hardly wait for my engine to blow so I can get in there and make some more mods.

It's a double-edged sword and a slippery slope, but like most, I do enjoy the "build" portion of ownership. You always learn things the first time around that you would employ in your next build.

I think Resto is asking the right questions and should have himself a fine Cobra when done.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... but like most, I do enjoy the "build" portion of ownership.

We need to get you to branch out in to the "repair" portion of ownership.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

We need to get you to branch out in to the "repair" portion of ownership.

Like most, if not all, I'm time challenged. Also, the car has been mostly problem-free (knock on wood). I had an electrical issue sorted out a few months back by a professional, since wiring and me do not get along together.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Like most, if not all, I'm time challenged. Also, the car has been mostly problem-free (knock on wood). I had an electrical issue sorted out a few months back by a professional, since wiring and me do not get along together.

Was that why you dumped your MSD Distributor?

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

My cam is 248/248 with .605 lift, which is a tad more lift than the "B" I believe

Your right. My cam is 242/242 with .526 lift.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Was that why you dumped your MSD Distributor?

That was my other problem. However, I don't want to muddy this thread and raise/get the ire of Jamo or Ron.

[Ronbo]

The numbers I was quoting were from listings I have of Ford crate engines (which is essentially what Shelby was buying) available during the 60's.

There is truth to what Ernie says about the the numbers being "conservative" all engine mfg's will quote a "minimum base line HP rating", in some cases it was real conservative like GM's rating on the L88 427 (rated 430HP @ 5800RPM but failed to mention that it red lined at 6500RPM and would produce in excess of 525HP).

The 426 Hemi, and Boss 429 were very conservatively rated at 425HP.

However at that time high compression (and good gas) was needed to produce these numbers. Still remember laughing at the sticker in my old Pontiac that read: "Your new GM vehicle only requires fuel with a minimum 91 octane rating, so it will run fine on regular gas."

The engine builders today easily produce 600+HP with 10.5:1 compression as long as they don't use any vintage components

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

The numbers I was quoting were from listings I have of Ford crate engines (which is essentially what Shelby was buying) available during the 60's.

So let's run this to ground. Shelby bought 427's off of the Galaxie line for his CSX cars. Those would have been the 410HP 4V or 425HP 8V variety. I would like to hear how he got those engines to 480HP. Have any of the MR heads on CSX 427s that have been pulled later in life shown signs of being heavily worked? Did he re-cam them? Compression bump? What else?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

So let's run this to ground. Shelby bought 427's off of the Galaxie line for his CSX cars. Those would have been the 410HP 4V or 425HP 8V variety. I would like to hear how he got those engines to 480HP. Have any of the MR heads on CSX 427s that have been pulled later in life shown signs of being heavily worked? Did he re-cam them? What else?

FWIW, my copy of Bil Carroll's Fooorrd Performance Guide lists the specs of perhaps half a dozen of the different Shelby 427 engines, some with horsepower numbers over 500. Aluminum heads, compression ratios, all were different. I can scan and post those pages for you this evening, if you would like.

[patrickt]

Uhhh, I just happened to have this one handy.