I set up my four wheel align ment for next week. I had a quea

[patrickt]

From Dr. John Krane -- "Suspension 401":

Here is the order of operations:

1.initial set up
2.set ride height
3.corner-weight balance
4.adjust caster
5.adjust camber
6.adjust toe
7.adjust bump-steer
8.recheck caster, camber, toe, and readjust if necessary

So I guess this guy is just completely, dead wrong? You might want to at least read his reasoning, his resume, etc. http://home.comcast.net/~jkrane/susp401.html

Look Scott, I'm not just trying to beat you in an argument. I'd like to find out the suspension engineer's answer, but it's got to be more than just yours.

[patrickt]

If you have corner scales, now would be the time to look at weight distribution and adjust the chassis as required, because changing it later would change the final camber settings.

That's a quote from this guy, who essentially says the same thing as Dr. Krane, and has written a very detailed PDF on the subject. http://www.scuderiatopolino.com/Susp...20Set%20Up.pdf

[scottj]

Patrick, I'd don't consider you to be aurguing with me. I posted a link to the Longacre tech article and the article can stand on its own... I wouldn't believe me either. That said, If your make changes to caster and camber you will affect corner weights. That is right out of the Longacre tech article. So yes, the Dr. is dead wrong in his order. But, If you make changes to corner weight while maintaining ride heights, like you are supposed to, alignment will be unaffected.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Look Scott, I'm not just trying to beat you in an argument. I'd like to find out the suspension engineer's answer, but it's got to be more than just yours.

Cripes!-Scott's a RACER...

You go to restaurants-does he really need to debate his suspension practices with you?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Cripes!-Scott's a RACER...

You go to restaurants-does he really need to debate his suspension practices with you?

Chas, you're pretty bright, and have done your fair share of suspension tweaks. Do you have an opinion on what should come first, corner weights or alignment?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Chas, you're pretty bright, and have done your fair share of suspension tweaks. Do you have an opinion on what should come first, corner weights or alignment?

First-Don't ever accuse me of being bright...
Without any professional input, in the '90's, I first set the ride height at 4.75 F, 4.875 R, with my weight + half tank.
Then local racer Willie Hassic set alignment (my weight in + half tank) as: 4 deg caster, 1/2 deg neg F camber, 3/4 deg neg R camber, 1/16" pos. toe F, 1/16" pos. toe R.
Then I scaled the car (with my weight+half tank) and got these figures but made no jacking changes:
LF 682 / RF 648, LR 755, RR 748. Distribution 47% / 53%.
I felt the differences were small enough for the occasional track and high speed runs I'd done. Wasn't looking for the ultimate lap. It's arrow-straight from 70 to 155mph, stops straight, and has turn-in that satisfies me. Again-I'm not the pros like Scott and Jerry.

From Scott's #10 post:
"If you're changing ride heights when adjusting corner weights then you're doing it wrong. Ride height is set 1st, then alignment, then scaling. Ride height is maintained through out and doesn't change when scaling."

How was that CROW you ate for dinner

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

How was that CROW you ate for dinner

We went beyond that when he wrote: "Say you want to increase RF-LR weight to balance your cross-weights. You would put turns in on the RF and LR coils and take turns out of the LF and RR coils, thus changing distibution while maintaining ride heights." We have a nice set of electronic scales in the local club, and right now my alignment and corner weights are dialed in nicely. But when I replace my Yokos with the Avons the ride height will change a bit, so that will be the perfect time to play with it all again.

BTW, please pass the mahi mahi.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

We have a nice set of electronic scales in the local club, and right now my alignment and corner weights are dialed in nicely. But when I replace my Yokos with the Avons the ride height will change a bit, so that will be the perfect time to play with it all again.

TO WHAT END?

None of the talking -head experts here ask themselves that question. And when newer guys ask for advice or info all they see is 'authoritative' preferences based mostly on web-dredged BS-not- lap times, ET's or durability evidence.

Ignored or not contemplated in all these BS science threads is What is the intended purpose of the car's use??

8/10's of the debaters and pontificating experts on here have NO NEED for corner weights, ZDDP, space-age coolants, gallons of oil and several other myth-laden subjects. And certainly neither do you, my authoritative friend. Guys are buying $15 / quart oil and throwing it out in three thousand miles because A. They perceive it's the best stuff for their 'baby' and B. They just CAN. Nobody asks 'Do I really need some of this esoteric stuff? Virtually NONE of it is required to increase the car's performance or longevity for the length of the owner's attention span-unless it's raced on the street or track.

You're buying Avons ?--to cut quicker laps to the haberdasher? Or cut 1.1G apexes? MT's are equal to your now-old Yokos and your street trolling needs at half the price of Avons. SFT's 'cause the noise is 'cool' in a rebuilder FE that can't make the tach touch '6'. The Emperor's Clothes indeed.

Get to Skip Barber's for the three day and when you're done you'll realize that there's 7/10's left in the car you never knew about. THAT'S what Cobras are all about.

You've taken this 'poser' stuff to new depths. Even Ferrari / Porsche owners conclude we're ass-clowns based on what can be read here.

[patrickt]

I have to replace my Yokos with something, and there aren't that many 15 inch tire choices. But Avon doesn't make a 235 for the front, and the 295 for the rear was, as I recall a decent bit different than my Yokos. The combined effect will require a ride height adjustment, and if you're doing that you might as well adjust the corners as well. Right? Remember, I take my ERA apart and put it back together again just for kicks.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

You've taken this 'poser' stuff to new depths. Even Ferrari / Porsche owners conclude we're ass-clowns based on what can be read here.

Them's fighting words. Where are these foreign car owners that think we're ass clowns?

Chas, BTW, my oil is $8/quart and my 110 Sunoco race gas is about $6.35/gallon. I also plan to buy Avons when my Yoko's age out. I want a V-rated radial tire under my behind. OK, OK, I'll get back to my "Ass-Clown Anonymous" meetings ASAP.

Third roll bar...that was funny.

I had my car corner balanced and weighed, and somewhere in there they set the ride height, but I have no clue what order they did it in.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

You go to restaurants...

Chas, tonight when they brought me this I thought of you. Now the Blackberry snapshot really does not do it justice. Two lobster tails over a curry of crab leg, rice and sweet corn. Somehow I thought it would bug you if I posted a pic of it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Chas, tonight when they brought me this I thought of you. Now the Blackberry snapshot really does not do it justice. Two lobster tails over a curry of crab leg, rice and sweet corn. Somehow I thought it would bug you if I posted a pic of it.

It bugs me a great deal. It looks like vomit. BTW, life must good. Lobster tails, crab leg, etc.

I'm hungry now. Vomit or not.