I am probably opening a can of worms here

[stimpy]

But it is a good point, thanks.

As for how the Kirkhams make money, don't feel too sorry for them yet.

Much of the labor in these cars takes place in Poland, and the Zloty has collapsed v the dollar over the past 2-3 years, going from 2 to over 3 to one.

that would give them a fair bit of room to cut prices if demand softened and they wanted to keep volumes high.

thanks again to all on this board for the great input.

Advice like the hail question is most welcome.

PS I didn't mean I don't get stimpy, I didn't get the attachment at first so I didn't know what you meant!!!

[RaceDeck]

Originally Posted by stimpy

But it is a good point, thanks.

As for how the Kirkhams make money, don't feel too sorry for them yet.

Much of the labor in these cars takes place in Poland, and the Zloty has collapsed v the dollar over the past 2-3 years, going from 2 to over 3 to one.

that would give them a fair bit of room to cut prices if demand softened and they wanted to keep volumes high.

!

I could not disagree more. Sure they get the bodies and frames from Poland and labor is cheaper...but,materials ( metals) have sky-rocketed over the last few years and they still have to ship them here.

Once here there is a ton of work needed to finish them and finish them to the highest standards that the Kirkhams demand. Then there is the ongoing product & performance development, working with customers during the build, working with customers long after the build and so on...There is a term that is common at the KMP factory " black hole of time" and that's because they virtually never leave..working day & night 6 days a week.

Just my $.02

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by RaceDeck

I could not disagree more. Sure they get the bodies and frames from Poland and labor is cheaper...but,materials ( metals) have sky-rocketed over the last few years and they still have to ship them here.

Once here there is a ton of work needed to finish them and finish them to the highest standards that the Kirkhams demand. Then there is the ongoing product & performance development, working with customers during the build, working with customers long after the build and so on...There is a term that is common at the KMP factory " black hole of time" and that's because they virtually never leave..working day & night 6 days a week.

Just my $.02

Aluminum prices are a fair bit lower now than 2 years ago (LME charts) and ocean container shipping has COLLAPSED as the economy has lagged.

Virtually every part of the businesss should be more profitable at the margin for the K's, leaving plenty of room to cut prices on rollers if they want.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by stimpy

Aluminum prices are a fair bit lower now than 2 years ago (LME charts) and ocean container shipping has COLLAPSED as the economy has lagged.

Virtually every part of the businesss should be more profitable at the margin for the K's, leaving plenty of room to cut prices on rollers if they want.

Just had a chance to read this thread. What else can be said. It's time to go work your deal with the Kirkham brothers.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by stimpy

Aluminum prices are a fair bit lower now than 2 years ago (LME charts) and ocean container shipping has COLLAPSED as the economy has lagged.

Virtually every part of the businesss should be more profitable at the margin for the K's, leaving plenty of room to cut prices on rollers if they want.

I don't keep an eye on commodity prices (OK, maybe pig futures ) or shipping prices, but while the Kirkhams keep their roller price the same at $57,000, Shelby, who buys their aluminum bodies from Kirkham, continues to increase their roller prices. I think they're up around $120,000 now.

[RodKnock]

And another item I noticed is that Pond aluminum blocks are $5,300 now versus about $4,700 when I was looking. Also, the CSX blocks were $5,200-ish and now they're up around $6,000. Hmmm.

[stimpy]

I thought I read in the interview with the brothers (about making the bodies in Poland) that Shelby was sourcing his rollers elsewhere these days. He was supposedly looking for a factory in Eastern Europe also, and one of the brothers (the one that learned to speak Polish as part of the venture!) was "wishing him (them) luck."

Might not be right though.

[RodKnock]

If you can find that interview, please post. I'm always interested.

The Kirkham website still states that Carroll Shelby is a client, but who knows how often the website is updated.

Now that Shelby is producing the CSX9000 in aluminum, I suppose it's possible that they decided to make their own Cobra bodies too.

[madmaxx]

The overall economy has been down for two years now. The majority of Rolex's, Cobras, boats which had to be sold to pay bill or eliminate debt have been transacted 6-12 months ago. No Cobra dealer has a standing inventory, they build after they receive an order and they have not lowered their prices. In all honesty the used Cobra market has stabilized, sure there is always a one off that needs to unload now but you better be watching the forumns, auctions with cash in hand. You will not have time to mentally masturbate about the decision the deal will be done.

The time to strike was a year ago. I was playing around on Craigslist and listed a Rolex, had 5 calls in 2 hours and was listing it for $700 more than I paid. Simply put there are not alot of used Rolex anymore and Rolex keeps raising their prices. The Rolex that had to be sold for cash were sold 2 years ago, banks are not loaning anymore. No more easy credit. Its a shame I used to get some screaming deals.

Reasonable price for a Kirkham will be $80K, the one off $65K is just that and does not include broker fees blah blah blah. On the flip side I sure would not spend more than $90K either.

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

The overall economy has been down for two years now. The majority of Rolex's, Cobras, boats which had to be sold to pay bill or eliminate debt have been transacted 6-12 months ago. No Cobra dealer has a standing inventory, they build after they receive an order and they have not lowered their prices. In all honesty the used Cobra market has stabilized, sure there is always a one off that needs to unload now but you better be watching the forumns, auctions with cash in hand. You will not have time to mentally masturbate about the decision the deal will be done.

The time to strike was a year ago. I was playing around on Craigslist and listed a Rolex, had 5 calls in 2 hours and was listing it for $700 more than I paid. Simply put there are not alot of used Rolex anymore and Rolex keeps raising their prices. The Rolex that had to be sold for cash were sold 2 years ago, banks are not loaning anymore. No more easy credit. Its a shame I used to get some screaming deals.

Reasonable price for a Kirkham will be $80K, the one off $65K is just that and does not include broker fees blah blah blah. On the flip side I sure would not spend more than $90K either.

While I would defer to virtually everyone on these boards when it comes to knowledge of the cars and the CURRENT market (hence my question), I would STRONGLY disagree with any generic predictions of the future of the US economy and the (subsequent) FURTHER affect it will be having on asset prices of all kinds, Cobras included.

Our economy is a mess. Interest rates, as you point out, are zero, suggesting the credit markets are broken and few can borrow AT ANY RATE. THAT ISN'T GETTING ANY BETTER EITHER.

The stock markets are manipulated by ALGO robots chasing each other around the Floor, and retail investors can't get out fast enough.

State and Local Governments are $200B in the red next year alone, and there will be little if any $ coming from DC this time around to plug the hole.

The FED and Governemnt managed to delay a real collapse in prices (of everything) for a year by spending 2 TRILLION DOLLARS (Stimulus 1 and FED T-note and MBS purchases to date), but now the wolf is back at the door.

This is going to get ugly, and if deflation sets in CASH WILL BE KING.

[stimpy]

While I don't what you paid I would be careful generalizing value based on current prices new.

Here is an example (one of many) from my local Craigslist of a Perpetual Datejust in stainless and gold for 5000$ that is 4 years old and in good condition.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/jwl/1920553156.html

Melrose Jewellers (largest online Rolex dealer they claim) has the EXACT same watch NEW for $3325.


http://www.melrosejewelers.com/mens-...ubilee-239.htm

[madmaxx]

I only play with Submariners, they are always in demand. I know the new Stainless Sub is $7250.

Originally Posted by stimpy

While I don't what you paid I would be careful generalizing value based on current prices new.

Here is an example (one of many) from my local Craigslist of a Perpetual Datejust in stainless and gold for 5000$ that is 4 years old and in good condition.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/jwl/1920553156.html

Melrose Jewellers (largest online Rolex dealer they claim) has the EXACT same watch NEW for $3325.


http://www.melrosejewelers.com/mens-...ubilee-239.htm

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by stimpy

While I would defer to virtually everyone on these boards when it comes to knowledge of the cars and the CURRENT market (hence my question), I would STRONGLY disagree with any generic predictions of the future of the US economy and the (subsequent) FURTHER affect it will be having on asset prices of all kinds, Cobras included.

Our economy is a mess. Interest rates, as you point out, are zero, suggesting the credit markets are broken and few can borrow AT ANY RATE. THAT ISN'T GETTING ANY BETTER EITHER.

The stock markets are manipulated by ALGO robots chasing each other around the Floor, and retail investors can't get out fast enough.

State and Local Governments are $200B in the red next year alone, and there will be little if any $ coming from DC this time around to plug the hole.

The FED and Governemnt managed to delay a real collapse in prices (of everything) for a year by spending 2 TRILLION DOLLARS (Stimulus 1 and FED T-note and MBS purchases to date), but now the wolf is back at the door.

This is going to get ugly, and if deflation sets in CASH WILL BE KING.

If prices are going to collapse, you can always wait on the sidelines for the "deal of the century", pile up a big wad of cash in your garage, and sit on top of it and make "vroom" noises.

[stimpy]

I had real estate agents telling me something along those same lines 3 years ago.

PS: "VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!"

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I only play with Submariners, they are always in demand. I know the new Stainless Sub is $7250.

I just had my watches appraised for insurance. My Rolex President was 26K, my Gold and stainless Submariner was 16K, my stainless GMT 3K. The increase in the price of gold bumped the values on the President and Submariner. Buying a Rolex is always a good investment IMO. The hold their value very well.

[Bernica]

This is why the guys that know, and can weather the current economic cycle, are just sitting on their cars.....

[madmaxx]

I could not agree more!!!!!!!! Rolex and quality firearms only appreciate in value, I wish I had bought 100 Rolex's 5 years ago!!!!

Originally Posted by SP01715

I just had my watches appraised for insurance. My Rolex President was 26K, my Gold and stainless Submariner was 16K, my stainless GMT 3K. The increase in the price of gold bumped the values on the President and Submariner. Buying a Rolex is always a good investment IMO. The hold their value very well.

[RodKnock]

Are we finished comparing our "you know whats"?

Somebody is sitting on a lot of cash, another on a lot of Rolex's and yet another on cache of firearms. I'm jealous. I'm going to down to the local liquor store and buying a Lotto ticket.

Now, more importantly, anyone sitting on a lot of magnesium Halibrand Cobra wheels and Cammers? Now we're talking.

If I win Lotto, I'll PM ya.

[Jamo]

Rolex...ho hum.

Panerai...mucho muy goodo.

...just sayin

[madmaxx]

A wonderful watch site that has all the models and well organized is Alan Furman.