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02-10-2011, 07:16 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65
The block is amazing, next will be to upggrade the old fe head with a new super high flowing billet head, think of that block, state of the art, with brand new state of the art heads, lots of power to be found in them heads.
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We have thought seriously about a billet head. We are just thinking about how to make it work without too much headache.
David
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02-10-2011, 07:32 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lantana,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Just dreaming at this point
Posts: 201
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirkham
We have thought seriously about a billet head. We are just thinking about how to make it work without too much headache.
David
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What if you designed the heads in a way that the combustion chambers were actually separate from the head and installed after the head was machined. You could machine the chamber inserts so they are an interference fit and have to be either pressed in place or super cooled and installed in a hot head, then staked or tacked in place. That way you could machine the water jackets inside the heads, then install the chambers afterward.
Sealing would be a challenge, along with keeping the strength of the head.
I guess I would have see the Solidworks model and start sectioning it to visualize how to machine it out of a solid chunk of metal.
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02-10-2011, 07:42 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider701
What if you designed the heads in a way that the combustion chambers were actually separate from the head and installed after the head was machined. You could machine the chamber inserts so they are an interference fit and have to be either pressed in place or super cooled and installed in a hot head, then staked or tacked in place. That way you could machine the water jackets inside the heads, then install the chambers afterward.
Sealing would be a challenge, along with keeping the strength of the head.
I guess I would have see the Solidworks model and start sectioning it to visualize how to machine it out of a solid chunk of metal.
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We have thought of exactly that. You are right, the sealing is the catch. A head is a very harsh environment with temperature and pressure and all sorts of fun.
David
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02-10-2011, 07:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tempe,AZ-High Point,NC,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #684, 482FE, Mike Mccluskey build
Posts: 2,520
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Not Ranked
I know one method of f1 cylinder head sealing, one being machined byrillium copper rings, but beryillium copper i heard is dangerous when heated, Ping wont make golf clubs out of beryllium anymore due to some kind of government regulation.
__________________
PRIDEnJOY
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02-10-2011, 07:53 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65
I know one method of f1 cylinder head sealing, one being machined byrillium copper rings, but beryillium copper i heard is dangerous when heated, Ping wont make golf clubs out of beryllium anymore due to some kind of government regulation.
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Beryllium is toxic to a percentage of the population. It is really only used in aerospace now. (Racing heads do use it for valve seats. The only thing higher than its thermal conductivity is the cost
David
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02-10-2011, 07:57 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tempe,AZ-High Point,NC,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #684, 482FE, Mike Mccluskey build
Posts: 2,520
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Not Ranked
When is a DOHC engine in the makes , the way they rev is fun.
__________________
PRIDEnJOY
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02-10-2011, 07:58 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lantana,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Just dreaming at this point
Posts: 201
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirkham
We have thought of exactly that. You are right, the sealing is the catch. A head is a very harsh environment with temperature and pressure and all sorts of fun.
David
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OK........thought about it more. Come at it from the other end.........from the valve train side. Make the area where the valve seats are as a removable plate so you can get into the backside of the combustion chambers and intake/exhaust runners to machine the water jackets. It then becomes much easier to seal off the water jackets into the valve train area without having to worry about combustion gas pressures.
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02-11-2011, 01:25 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Ellington,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadster 351W, T5, Red & White
Posts: 3,478
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Not Ranked
David, for the 2011 Mustang 5.0L Production Aluminum Bock, Ford is using " Low pressure cast 319 aluminum " , as mentioned in their advertisement.
With castings, the selection of aluminum to be used is different, as compared to the aluminum in the machining process you are using ?
__________________
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Unkown:"Their sweet lines all but take my breath away, and I desire them as much for their beauty as for their use "
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02-11-2011, 11:21 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing65
When is a DOHC engine in the makes , the way they rev is fun.
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It's all we can do to keep up with SOHC motors
David
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02-11-2011, 11:23 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider701
OK........thought about it more. Come at it from the other end.........from the valve train side. Make the area where the valve seats are as a removable plate so you can get into the backside of the combustion chambers and intake/exhaust runners to machine the water jackets. It then becomes much easier to seal off the water jackets into the valve train area without having to worry about combustion gas pressures.
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Yes, we have thought about that too and I think that is the only way that will work. We will have to keep the joint as far away from the combustion chamber as possible to keep the heat out of the seal. Still thinking on this one.
David
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02-11-2011, 11:33 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Provo,
Ut
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, 427
Posts: 6,990
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don
David, for the 2011 Mustang 5.0L Production Aluminum Bock, Ford is using " Low pressure cast 319 aluminum " , as mentioned in their advertisement.
With castings, the selection of aluminum to be used is different, as compared to the aluminum in the machining process you are using ?
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Yes! Casting alloys and machining alloys are very different! We used 319 some time ago for our differentials and we didn't like it at all. The strength with 319 is less than 356T-6 and we didn't like how it machined. 319 is not heat treated. It is used "as cast" therefore, it is cheaper than 356T-6 (which I imagine is why Ford has switched to that alloy).
Now, Ford has VAST experience casting. Anything they cast will be far better than anything a small casting house can produce with small casting runs.
David
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