Looking for advice on titling a Kirkham

[cobra dave437]

Looking at a new Kirkham on MSO.
The car will be registered/titled in Ohio.
My understanding from the BMV is that the Ohio title has to read 2011 self assembled car.
I want the title to read 1965 Kirkham 289 cobra roadster or something close to that.
Any ideas on how to accomplish this? Title transfer through another state?
Kirkham owners: how do your titles read?
Thanks

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by cobra dave437

Looking at a new Kirkham on MSO.
The car will be registered/titled in Ohio.
My understanding from the BMV is that the Ohio title has to read 2011 self assembled car.
I want the title to read 1965 Kirkham 289 cobra roadster or something close to that.
Any ideas on how to accomplish this? Title transfer through another state?
Kirkham owners: how do your titles read?
Thanks

Sorry, if you live in Ohio, in order to legally title your new Kirkham it will read as thelaw states it will. To ask how to circumnavigate the process in a public manner opens you up to the possibility of having your car confiscated by the state police.......Is getting your car titled as a 65 really worth losing it?

http://publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/bmv3774.pdf


Bill S.

[mickmate]

You didn't like your anwers on the same post by a slightly different name so you tried again huh?

[JWilly]

To start the process you have to go down to your local BMV office and pay $50 (I think) for a form to take with the car to a state highway patrol inspection station. You have to get an appointment for that. The fun begins there.

[cobra dave437]

Originally Posted by mickmate

You didn't like your anwers on the same post by a slightly different name so you tried again huh?

Mickmate,
If I wanted to disguise the thread as a second one I certainly could have done a better job. I did not start a similar post because I didn't like the answers I got. I am appreciative of all the answers I received, even yours.

The reason I started a similar thread in the Kirkham section is to get to the Kirkham owners who might not have read the other thread.
I am still interested in hearing how Kirkham owners have their cars titled.

[computerworks]

I think the answer is brand-independent... nobody makes a 1965 car in 2011, but some states let you register a replica as the year-of-car that it replicates.

Some don't.

It's your state law, not the mfg.

Have fun.

[JWilly]

Computerworks is correct, registering in Ohio is brand independent. I do not have a Kirkham, but my Shelby 6000 series is titled as a 2010 self assembled vehicle. The Kirkham will not be treated any differently. That being said, there is little about this process in Ohio that is perfectly predictable. Dealing with the Ohio BMV can sometimes be very frustrating. Also, there are numerous replica Cobra's titled in Ohio as 1965 or 1966 that have only been registered in Ohio (not a transferred title but original to Ohio). That is not supposed to happen but it has How do they do this???? I don't know. Mr. Mustang makes the valid point that doing this is risky but I have never heard of a car being confiscated in Ohio for this reason.

[d_ford]

Another route may be to find a used car already titled the way you want in another state. The DMV will just check the VIN against the title and issue you an ohio title. I've had two ERA's, the first one was titled as a 66 shelby, the same as the iowa title I got with the car. The second was titled as an assembled vehicle, the year it was assembled just as the michigan title was when I bought the car.

[cobra dave437]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Sorry, if you live in Ohio, in order to legally title your new Kirkham it will read as thelaw states it will. To ask how to circumnavigate the process in a public manner opens you up to the possibility of having your car confiscated by the state police.......Is getting your car titled as a 65 really worth losing it?

http://publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/bmv3774.pdf


Bill S.

Bill,
I appreciate the information.
Let's say that someone runs the title through another state that is lenient on the description of the car. Then titles it from there in Ohio. The other state collects state sales tax and Ohio collects state sales tax. The only difference being is that the title now says 1965 Kirkham instead of 2011 assembled vehicle.
Why would Ohio care?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by cobra dave437

Bill,
I appreciate the information.
Let's say that someone runs the title through another state that is lenient on the description of the car. Then titles it from there in Ohio. The other state collects state sales tax and Ohio collects state sales tax. The only difference being is that the title now says 1965 Kirkham instead of 2011 assembled vehicle.
Why would Ohio care?

If you are not a full time resident of that "other state" (IE: you are not a licensed driver in that state), then this is really a moot point. Regardless, in todays day and age, it really does not matter what year or description is on the title....As for my warning of confiscation, while it has not happened in Ohio (yet), it has happened in several other states where a knock on the door is proceeded by the impoundment of the vehicle for title fraud. If you have more money than brains, then do it any way you like. If however you are a fairly intelligent human being you'll just title it the legally way, get in, turn the key and drive the heck out of it.........

Bill S.

[mickmate]

I think the problem you'll find is they have terminology that they will title it by. I don't think you'll be able to decide what that is. It would have to be under a manufacturer which is to them a big company that crash tests, emissions tests and sells complete running vehicles. I have people knowledgeable about the system that can guide me on that before I fill a form out but there's still inconsistencies and I sure can't tell them I'd heard different from....... you've just gotta check the right boxes on the forms. If you can find an Ohio Cobra guy that's been through it on here that will be helpful or anyone you know who is familiar with the system. You'll be an expert on it when you're done, good luck.

[Avmaviator]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

If you are not a full time resident of that "other state" (IE: you are not a licensed driver in that state), then this is really a moot point. Regardless, in todays day and age, it really does not matter what year or description is on the title....As for my warning of confiscation, while it has not happened in Ohio (yet), it has happened in several other states where a knock on the door is proceeded by the impoundment of the vehicle for title fraud. If you have more money than brains, then do it any way you like. If however you are a fairly intelligent human being you'll just title it the legally way, get in, turn the key and drive the heck out of it.........

Bill S.

So what states like you mentioned, have state police officers/members going through forums in seach of individuals trying to go around their state's proper titling procedure?
I wouldn't worry about it. But I guess that means according to Bill S that I have "more money then brains" and am not a "fairly intelligent human being" There are ao many absurd and illogical state/national laws for minor things, and gaping holes for major ones, but lets not get started

OP, I hope you find an easy way to title your car, keep us up to date (or don't if you are worried about the state Po-Po )

[Don]

CT has a Model Year registration law for all types of kit cars, the vehicle year is the same year the vehicle most closely resembles. All kit cars, whether self constructed or turn key, have the Make name of Composite, even if previously registered out of state with a different make year and name. Title reads the same way.

As an example: 1965 Composite

[Mark Thompson]

It seems that Ohio is one of the states that has created a channel for the registration of specially constructed vehicles such as the Kirkham. California has done the same with Senate Bill 100. My Kirkham, 625, is registered as a 2009 SPCNS. It is great to live in a state that understands the value of registering these cars; work with them.

Mark

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Avmaviator

So what states like you mentioned, have state police officers/members going through forums in seach of individuals trying to go around their state's proper titling procedure?
I wouldn't worry about it. But I guess that means according to Bill S that I have "more money then brains" and am not a "fairly intelligent human being" There are ao many absurd and illogical state/national laws for minor things, and gaping holes for major ones, but lets not get started

OP, I hope you find an easy way to title your car, keep us up to date (or don't if you are worried about the state Po-Po )

Not police, but State Attorneys from California and Connecticut are guaranteed and confirmed here (officers of the DMV/MVS from several others)........Cars being impounded while paperwork/titles are confiscated, just the ones I have personal knowledge over, both those states, PA, NJ, DC, Texas, , South Carolina, North Dakota, Georgia, and yes, Ohio (all kit car related)......Again, you live in Ohio, follow your state laws and be done with it.


Bill S.

[mickmate]

A high profile case of playing games with paperwork was the Boyd Coddington debacle. There's other more specific examples relating directly to us on here. Organisations like SAN work very hard for our hobby and the whole industry. My opinion is arm yourself with knowledge and go through the process. It ticks me off no end that there's scammers in the system that inevitably screw it up and make it more difficult for everyone.

[JWilly]

FYI for guys in Ohio:

Last year, State Rep. Kenny Yuko, District 7, sponsored HB 199 of the 128th Session of the Ohio General Assembly. There were 10 cosponsors to the bill. That bill was the SEMA bill which would allow street rods/ custom cars to be titled as the year the car represents. The definition of street rods/customs in the bill included replica Cobras. The title would register the car as the year it represents with the entry "r”, for replica, following the final digit of the model year on the certificate of title. This bill made it through committee and was to come up in the House for a vote. It never came up for a vote on the House floor. As I understand it, some (many?) of the scheduled legislative sessions never occurred. Last year was an election year and I expect that getting reelected was more important to the legislators than doing the business of the state. Bottom line…HB 199 was not passed.

Earlier this year, I contacted Rep. Yuko’s office to inquire about the status of HB 199. The note I received from his Aide indicated the 128th Session was over and that the bill would have to be reintroduced into the 129th Session (this year’s Session). As I understand it, the whole process must start over as nothing carries over from the previous legislative session. Also in the note, the Aide indicated that Rep. Yuko had not decided whether or not he would reintroduce the bill this year. Checking the Ohio State Legislature website, there is currently no indication that Rep. Yuko has reintroduced the bill nor has any other Rep. or Senator reintroduced the bill. Bottom line…It ain’t happening this year.

I cannot speak for the Ohio Cobra Club but I am aware that some guys there are going to get involved in an effort to get the bill reintroduced (probably for next year). It was asked if this bill did pass and become law, could cars already titled in the state (like my 2010 self assembled vehicle) be re-titled under the new law. My opinion was that this likely would not be allowed but others have disagreed with me on this. Allowing our cars to be re-titled would certainly be the best case scenario.

[Don]

JWilly.....when CT passed the Model Year registration, year the vehicle most closely resembles, it was not retroactive.

The change was included in the annual DMV Bill, rather than a separate Bill and was limited to just Model Year registration. A group of hobbyists/businesses as well as the CT Council of Car Clubs testified in person at the General Assembly Transportation Committee hearing, as well as submitting written testimony.

The Legislators commented favorably on the personal appearance of the individuals in support of the initiative.

[cobra dave437]

I talked to a lady in Ohio Rep. Yuko's office today about HB 199. She said the bill didn't pass last year and probably would have been reintroduced this year.
However with a republican majority now it doesn't seem likely. Yuko is a democrat.
I left a message with Rep. Gonzales from my district. Let's see what we hear from her office.