Coyote 5.0L in a Kirkham?

[Avmaviator]

Should I even dare mention the two together? To be honest we are throwing around this idea for our build right now... We have two quotes for 452s currently with reputable engine builders, but we are also looking into this Coyote engine. There is currently a video out there of a Superformance with one in there, and it works pretty darn well.
The question is, would it fit in there? I know we can still use a TKO-600 with that engine but I'm not sure what are the physical dimension differences between the engines (working on getting those numbers).

Anyways, would we get lynched for doing this?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Avmaviator

Anyways, would we get lynched for doing this?

I think you'll find similar answers to one of your previous threads about engine choice.

http://clubcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109540

Put whatever you want in there, but when it comes time for resale, you may have issues in terms of price/value.

[Dimis]

Its being done at RMC in Perth, WA Australia.

They have got both a 4.6L and 5.0L modular as I understand it.

I believe it requires mods to the foot boxes and lifting of the interior tunnel (Not certain on this! You best seek clarification of the detail of this info).

These cars are not yet on the road as registered vehicles yet but they are planing on this coming thru soon.

Just curious - Given the option of a modern motor why wouldn't you go LS7?
That way it would be a modern day 427 Kirkham Cobra, no nasty mods and more power...

This thought has certainly crossed my mind


Flame suit on!

Anth

[RestoCreations]

I think a coyote motor is perfect for something like a FFR, but in a Kirkham? As a well known builder said to me concerning mod motors in high end replicas, "it's like kissing your sister"
I think the major problem with putting a coyote motor into a kirkham will be resale value. At some point, we all consider or must sell our cars. I dont think you would find a very good market for a kirkham with a mod motor. Just my .02

[Avmaviator]

Not worried about the resale aspect. And for the replica aspect. We're not trying to do a true/correct replica of an original cobra, that would mean getting the correct suspension (not standard on Kirkhams, a hefty upgrade), engine, etc... unless you want a show car or something that is not going to happen (for us, or the majority of the Kirkham owners lets face it).
Kirkham kits are definitely a high end replica, which is why we are going with them. Their work is superior to others. But at the same time, putting a modern, reliable, efficient engine in the car makes sense too, since we want to drive it a lot... but I guess that's where people have different "goals" for their cars.
I'm not trying to start a fight or to say that people who are trying to go the "original" way are wrong. Just want to stimulate some dialogue on if this is possible/realistic (I know "everything is possible" but I'm trying to find out if we can do it without changing tons of structural stuff on the car)

Dimis, thank you for your comment, I can see having to mess around with the footboxes as this V8 has more degrees on angle in the V I do believe. As far as LS7.... I think we want to stick with a Ford.... the whole modern engine in a Kirkham thing is bad enough haha

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Avmaviator

....As far as LS7.... I think we want to stick with a Ford.... the whole modern engine in a Kirkham thing is bad enough haha

I think you'll find with Push rods the LS7 design is more Ford than...

Enjoy!

[FredBMOC]

I have seen in person the coyote engined Backdraft and even got to see a little of the fabrication that was required to "shoehorn" the coyote engine in there. From what I saw, I believe that it's going to take a lot of work to get the coyote in the Kirkham. The coyote somehow seems to be a huge engine dimension wise and because it's a modern and emissions compliant engine you also need to get sensors to several different places including the exhausts; computer, etc so be prepared for a hefty premium being the first one with that engine.
Good luck on whatever direction you ultimately decide to go.

[Avmaviator]

Originally Posted by FredBMOC

I have seen in person the coyote engined Backdraft and even got to see a little of the fabrication that was required to "shoehorn" the coyote engine in there. From what I saw, I believe that it's going to take a lot of work to get the coyote in the Kirkham. The coyote somehow seems to be a huge engine dimension wise and because it's a modern and emissions compliant engine you also need to get sensors to several different places including the exhausts; computer, etc so be prepared for a hefty premium being the first one with that engine.
Good luck on whatever direction you ultimately decide to go.

Fred, thanks a lot, that is the kind of insight I was looking for. I don't/didn't know if it is a big job, or huge job

[1985 CCX]

Ok, this is a great question however I must say the new motor is really a SOHC look alike and in a Cobra not bad....

With the available cast valve covers, correct period intake and carb it will look like a SOHC even though its new.....

Would I do it? Maybe but sure to do it old school.

[RestoCreations]

I like mod motors and i am currently putting one in a 67 mustang fastback. Its a lot of work, no matter what car you retrofit one into. Sensors, computer, extra wiring, different engine mounts, radiator connections, different length transmission, different length driveshaft, plugs, fittings, etc. etc etc. and that is if you dont go with a supercharged engine. Superchared opens up a whole new can of worms. For the money you would end up spending retrofitting it into a kirkham, you could probably buy an FE with a mass-flo EFi system or fast efi system and have a lot less headaches.
I think the Kirkham cars are works of Art and i would not personally refer to them as "kits". I reserve that term for hand laid fiberglass cars that come in a semi full of boxes with ill fitting parts, ride like a dune buggy, and require donor parts, but that is just me.
Good luck, whatever your decision.

[fordracing65]

Better put a power adder on it, I have a 5.0 dohc cammer, way under powered for a cobra, and my motor puts out more than the coyote.

[griffbl]

well I know this is a dead thread of sorts, but I am new to the forum and contemplating this exact install.....I have a little different take on it...IMHO, the Kirkham is the finest body / chassis / suspension package in Cobra land.....I think coupling that with a Ford engine, which is truly groundbreaking in terms of power, weight, reliability, economy and emissions is really not such a bad way to go. I think it is in some ways similar to my Ford GT.....great looking body, not exactly what raced at Le Mans, but a wonderful modern rendition of that famous racer, with a modern powerplant. I see a Coyote powered Kirkham in a very similar light! Will it have the re-sale of a 427 car? Maybe not....It is certainly NOT a substitute for that. But, it might just add a larger audience, or persuade people to use their cars more! A 427 is special, but it is a lot of other things too.....i think for many people, this would be a much more practical, and many times, enjoyable car. Ever notice how many low low miles FE powered Cobras, even Kirkhams, are floating around? Again, they are different animals, but a Coyote powered Kirkham might be a very very good package for many enthusiasts who want something a bit less raw My two cents!

[WardL]

Everyone is different, but when I was shopping for my Cobra, I thought big block 427+ Cobras were less desirable and lower priced. I'm not knocking them, just what I seem to observe. I think a Coyote would be the most desirable engine in a Cobra right now. Oh, it is not "original" seems a little self-serving in a replica world. I don't buy that aspect of it. Now if you have a red plastic dash and shag carpet or a Chevy engine, then that's going to hurt the resale price, but a Coyote engine should be a huge plus. Wait until gas is $6/gallon. Like the guy said, my two-cents.....

[Jeff Frigo]

Maybe in an FFR, but not a Kirkham.

[fordracing65]

It fits in a superformance with no modifications, pretty much a drop in and go deal.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

It fits in a superformance with no modifications, pretty much a drop in and go deal.

Here's a little trivia for you...

From what I understand, you can thank CTC Australia, specifically Keith B (who ocassionally frequents this site) for this. They had to engineer the SPF to make the 5.4lt ford fit to comply with local regulations. Something about the mother of invention...
this was then taken back to south africa, where the subtle changers were made to accommodate this for all SPF cars.

Since the coyote is built on the same modular size platform it thus fits.

[GoMangoMan]

BDR had a car in Carlisle Pa. (Kit/import show) this year which had the Coyote in it. It looked and sounded great.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by WardL

I thought big block 427+ Cobras were less desirable and lower priced. I'm not knocking them, just what I seem to observe.

?? I don't know where you looked but you had me thinking that I might have been out of touch. So I just went and leafed through Cobra Country to see If I'd missed a market trend. I hadn't, big block FE engines still demand a premium over any other power plant in a 427 styled Cobra. All things being equal (manufacturer, equipment etc.) a 427+ FE will get a $5-10k bump on small blocks and other non-traditional power plants.

Now that doesn't mean that it's economically better to install an FE just because EVERYTHING for those bastiges is more expensive than a SB and you won't recoup all of that on a resale. However, to say that a BB 427+ is LESS desirable in the market is just crazy talk.

[RestoCreations]

I have to agree...I have never seen a small block get more attention than an big block FE. When i had my small block build people were always disappointed when i lifted the hood. It was always, "awww man, cool engine, but i thought it was going to be a 427fe"
There are some people that might say they prefer a small block for driving cruising etc., but when it comes down to selling, the FE builds will always bring more money.
On the topic of the new modular 5.0 there is one problem and that is the top half of the engine isnt very attractive, even with the dress up kit. I am sure they will address this problem soon and aftermarket parts will be available to make it look better, but with the exception of the 5.0 mod motors with a twin screw supercharger sitting on top, i have to agree that the stock intake and dress up kit are pretty fugly.

[fordracing65]

Never will a mod motor go for more than an fe, just not gonna happen. My motor dropped right in, thanks south africa. (Especially the coyote, the motor is only $6000 grand brand new, an fe $15000g)