Coyote 5.0L in a Kirkham?

[Avmaviator]

Griffbl, You have a pm

[DougD]

I think a Coyote Kirkham would be awesome. One of those Saturday morning TV car shows put one in a street rod with SOHC-lookalike valve covers. Add a quartet of webers or weber-looking injection. Delicious.

And as far as it violating Kirkham "originality", let's be honest - that train left the station a long time ago. Their electrics, brakes, suspension and details underhood bear no resemblance to an original. Top-shelf workmanship and materials, but no longer original. It's available if you want it, but they've moved beyond that, and their sales and reputation show that there's a market for billet Cobras. So what is really wrong with adding more modern improvement, ie a Coyote powerplant?

[griffbl]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I have to agree...I have never seen a small block get more attention than an big block FE. When i had my small block build people were always disappointed when i lifted the hood. It was always, "awww man, cool engine, but i thought it was going to be a 427fe"
There are some people that might say they prefer a small block for driving cruising etc., but when it comes down to selling, the FE builds will always bring more money.
On the topic of the new modular 5.0 there is one problem and that is the top half of the engine isnt very attractive, even with the dress up kit. I am sure they will address this problem soon and aftermarket parts will be available to make it look better, but with the exception of the 5.0 mod motors with a twin screw supercharger sitting on top, i have to agree that the stock intake and dress up kit are pretty fugly.

You have no quarrel with me on that point.....those valve covers used on the Raybestos Rod built by Hollywood Hot Rod? are completely beautiful, but a simple option of the intake valleys and valve covers (coil covers?) are in part solved by the upper end from a 2012 Boss 302, which Ford sells....it also allows you to bump the power towards the 440HP mark, out of 5 litres and still being normally aspirated....those Boss components do look a LOT better, at least to me....My Two Cents again.....

[DougD]

Yeah, that's the one - The Raybestos roadster pickup. I could make room for it in my garage....

[fordracing65]

By the time you modfied a Kirkham to fit a coyote you could buy there billet car.

[WardL]

OK, stand corrected as I misspoke. What I meant to say, is a small block Dart Block 427 gets a better resale price than a FE427. Yep, I probably lit a fuse there! Basically, do you prefer to have a 427 with less weight and less originality or a heavier block with more originality? The resale price decides and so I'll say it succinctly: A Dart block 427 Cobra has higher resale than a FE 427. I agree with DougD, we have little originality in our replicas (replicas are awesome Cobras!) and no one in their right mind would tell me "Oh Ward L, that engine doesn't cut it dude!" Ha, Ha, Ha! They are both incredible engines! You are just going to pay more for a Dart block. Ding, Ding, your turn....

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by WardL

OK, stand corrected as I misspoke. What I meant to say, is a small block Dart Block 427 gets a better resale price than a FE427. Yep, I probably lit a fuse there! Basically, do you prefer to have a 427 with less weight and less originality or a heavier block with more originality? The resale price decides and so I'll say it succinctly: A Dart block 427 Cobra has higher resale than a FE 427. I agree with DougD, we have little originality in our replicas (replicas are awesome Cobras!) and no one in their right mind would tell me "Oh Ward L, that engine doesn't cut it dude!" Ha, Ha, Ha! They are both incredible engines! You are just going to pay more for a Dart block. Ding, Ding, your turn....

I dont think its about the originality so much, as it is the
ford FE is just one bad ass motor probably the best motor ford has ever built, this motor scares chevy guys and it makes hemi men drool, the windsor is just a windsor, powerful yes, dime a dozen, yes, the FE is what a cobra wants and needs.

[berzerko]

I own a hurricane I built 4 years ago with a 4.6 dohc at the time i decided to pull the efi in favor of a carb and Sullivan intake. Looks awsome, parked next to a big block defiantly gets more looks (at least out of curiosity ) but low rpm performance has always suffered.

Seriously considering selling that power plant in favor of a new coyote, 380- 400 hp with a mild tune, new car reliability,drivability, super smoth power delivery and now that I finished my mr Bruce hard top it seems even more sensible

Fitting the mod in the car was not a big deal at all the only thing on the new coyote i see is the alt. position with the narrower frame rails it will hit, but a little fab will fix that

Also no one makes a header set so a custom set would need to Fabed up or modify an existing set with coyote flanges

I will try to post some pics otherwise check my profile page to see

[fordracing65]

My car is for sale, if your so hot on the coyote why not a cammer, more power, all forged.

[cobrarkc]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

ford FE is just one bad ass motor probably the best motor ford has ever built, .

I would have to diagree on this, the Cleveland motor is the best motor Ford made and has the credentials to back it up with the most EMC wins.
JMHO
Now if you are talking about a SOHC motor that is different and way cooler!

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by WardL

OK, stand corrected as I misspoke. What I meant to say, is a small block Dart Block 427 gets a better resale price than a FE427. Yep, I probably lit a fuse there! Basically, do you prefer to have a 427 with less weight and less originality or a heavier block with more originality? The resale price decides and so I'll say it succinctly: A Dart block 427 Cobra has higher resale than a FE 427. I agree with DougD, we have little originality in our replicas (replicas are awesome Cobras!) and no one in their right mind would tell me "Oh Ward L, that engine doesn't cut it dude!" Ha, Ha, Ha! They are both incredible engines! You are just going to pay more for a Dart block. Ding, Ding, your turn....

OK, my turn, and I'll say that you are wrong again on all points. It doesn't matter what block the 351 based motor has it's not going to bring better resale than a real 427. Of course there is always a sucker so that has to be factored in as we are talking about resale value of a group of cars, not 1 car. So match apples to apples and your statement will get blown out every time. Now let's go beyond the value thing and tackle the weight issue which seems to still be a sticking point even though it's been discussed thousands of times with actual weights given. Here they are again, oh and with a dart block:

351 stroker = 467 lbs.
427 stroker = 503 lbs.

Yup, read'em and weep. Less than 30 pounds difference between the two. In case you're wondering where I got my info, it's right here and has obviously been around a while for anyone who wishes to look for it:

351 stroker and 427 engine weights... - GT40s.com

Now before someone goes off the deep end talking about that killer 30 pounds on the "front" of the car destroying the balance and handling of the beast, remember that we are talking Cobras here, not Mustangs or something of that nature. MY FE powered BDR still has almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution and even if I sat another 30 pounds on top of my engine I would probably still have that. Why? Because the engine is completely behind the front suspension, unlike other cars that we are used to. Of course less weight is better any time one is going for a performance vehicle. But, to put that in perspective, I hurt my "handling" more by putting fans in front of my radiator than I did by putting an FE in it. Think I noticed a difference? Nada.

Getting back to the OP's question; I think a well done Coyote in a Kirkham could be way cool and, if it were mine, I would make that puppy look like a SOHC on steroids.

Do I think it would bring the same $$ at resale as a 427 FE based motor? Nope, but it would still be cool!

[berzerko]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

My car is for sale, if your so hot on the coyote why not a cammer, more power, all forged.

the cammer is a awsome package but $ wise for my application not worth it in my option. coyote turn key is around $8k the cammer add an extra $3k on that.
the reality for me is new car drivability, my 4.6 dynos at 330 rwhp which is plenty quick for the urban driving i do add another 60hp to that with better low end response

A good friend of mine has a 66 fast back he droped almost 30k on a shelby aluminum block, weber style injection fe. the motor is a beast but for 20k could of fitted it with a 5.4 gt500 crate engine. neither are original to the car which would you chose?

this debate comes down to old verse new, at this point I want to turn the key and go maybe when im retired and have nothing to do my option will change.
if i could afford a kirkham i would put a supercharged coyote in it in before a B.B fe
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[fordracing65]

The cammer is $15000, it is a full race motor, the coyote goes in your moms mustang, the forged pistons and ford gt heads is where the cammer really shines, its no wonder it is fords premier road race motor, 90 percent of all teams stayed with the cammer over the coyote, even the le mans winning ford gt uses the cammer over the 5.4 supercharged, coyote 440hp, cammer 550hp, now you see where the money goes. Dont want to get on a mod motor debate, just dont put it in a KIRKHAM.

[Dimis]

I subscribe to the theory that Kirkhams are special cars, so deserving of a special engine!
Thus an FE or Cammer...

Further a Kirkham with it's billet bits is an improved modern version of a 60's car, thus in keeping with the theme should have a modern version of a 60s engine an FE.

If I wanted to drive a coyote I'd buy a mustang!

Ultimately its each to their own,
but this is just my 2cents...

[SpecOp1]

Well I guess I should chime in here....new to forum, but not modular engines....I have BDR 1063. And it is a 5.0 with a Boss 302 manifold.Dynoed at 419 at the rear wheels. I think that will get you down the road pretty quick. The car is a beast in 2nd and 3rd gear. It has amazing response and eats NO gas. Sounds great with your foot in it and can have a conversation with my passengers in 4th and 5th gear. Have had a 4.6 Mustang GT for the past 6 years and modified that car a lot. When I lift my Cobra hood at shows most people are stunned. Yes some mock it, others just whistle. I haven't been able to get my photos up yet but if you have Facebook look at Backdraft's October 1 entry..(If one of you techy guys can re-print that here, please do)..Kirkhams are great cars....technology changes. I would love to see a mod engine in such a fine car. My 2 cents...Bill

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by SpecOp1

Well I guess I should chime in here....new to forum, but not modular engines....I have BDR 1063. And it is a 5.0 with a Boss 302 manifold.Dynoed at 419 at the rear wheels. I think that will get you down the road pretty quick. The car is a beast in 2nd and 3rd gear. It has amazing response and eats NO gas. Sounds great with your foot in it and can have a conversation with my passengers in 4th and 5th gear. Have had a 4.6 Mustang GT for the past 6 years and modified that car a lot. When I lift my Cobra hood at shows most people are stunned. Yes some mock it, others just whistle. I haven't been able to get my photos up yet but if you have Facebook look at Backdraft's October 1 entry..(If one of you techy guys can re-print that here, please do)..Kirkhams are great cars....technology changes. I would love to see a mod engine in such a fine car. My 2 cents...Bill

I have a mod motor also, the coyote is a plastic engine thus the $6000 pricetag, soon to be in every junk yard known to man, just like previous 5.0. the engine, does look good under the hood, but 419 hp is laughable when it comes to FE power, with no tq to boot, the FE could pull your motorhome.

[berzerko]

I guess everyone is entitled to there option thats what makes horse races and for a good debate
I supose me and spec op are on the same page and will keep our "junk yard motors" in our fake cars. Ironicly my engine came from a junk yard, cost me $1500 and if you figure H.P per dollar I win by a mile

just out of curiousity if you love your cammer soooo much why you selling?

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by berzerko

I guess everyone is entitled to there option thats what makes horse races and for a good debate
I supose me and spec op are on the same page and will keep our "junk yard motors" in our fake cars. Ironicly my engine came from a junk yard, cost me $1500 and if you figure H.P per dollar I win by a mile

just out of curiousity if you love your cammer soooo much why you selling?

I Have a Kirkham with an FE on the way. I build cobras and sell them all the time, this is my 4th one, and yes I love the mod motor cobra, thats why I built it 4 years ago, with a 6 speed magnum, just not in a Kirkham, it needs an FE. (I like your car by the way, and the backdraft cobra coyote.)

[Avmaviator]

My next Kirkham will have a 4 cyl Honda turbocharged engine. It will be much better on gas, sounds awesome when revving high, and it is cheap.

[SpecOp1]

Wow no elitism here .....I just was making an example of the new technology...I also think a Kirkham should have a monster motor....too bad the original poster and others want to think out of the box....