Kirkham vs. ERA

[Flygirl]

You're probably sick of my asking so many questions...but here goes.

So far I've learned a bit about the Factory Five cars, then Superformance, then ERA (can you see the progression here?) and now I'm beginning to do the same with the Kirkham S/C 427

I'm liking the shape of the body—seems very correct to me—and the engineering. But I don't know too much about the vibe, how owners (and non owners, for that matter) feel when it comes to these cars.

At the moment my major question is about the aluminum body. I love the brushed finish but wonder how delicate the aluminum is. And if it'd be an issue on a car that I'd be using regularly on the weekends, possibly even for some longer distance touring.

Also, does it tarnish in any way? Would I use some sort of stainless steel cleaner on it periodically? I'm assuming that's normally the metal which is exposed, sans clear coat.

The Kirkham website doesn't seem to have nearly as much information as the ERA site. Can anyone suggest how I can learn more about these cars?

And weren't some of the early builds subject to a sagging chassis?

All opinions are welcome.

Thank you!

[Dwight]

Kirkham, top of the line, the next would be an orignal Shelby.

If I had one it would be painted.

Dwight

[kgs365]

a kirkham is top dog....its really a matter of $$...i call it the
$25's...approx $25K for a FF5, another $25 for a ERA another $25 for a Kirkham....

I've never heard of sagging frames on a kirkham...David and his group are stand up folks and stand behind their product and the community!...You can probably have a Kirkham built quicker then a ERA...its all a matter of $$$

[RodKnock]

Some time ago, there were two "Assembly Manual" type threads posted here by Kirkham. The first is the "Assembly Thread" and the second is the "Assembly Manual Questions" thread:

Kirkham Motorsports Assembly Manual

Kirkham Assembly Manual - Questions Thread...

[RodKnock]

From the Kirkham website, here's the "Technical Questions" link. If you scroll down, then you'll see "Bare Aluminum Finish Care":

Technical Question

[mrmustang]

If you have the funds, Kirkham, if you do not ERA.


Really, that is all that needs to be said.


Bill S.

[RodKnock]

Here's the entire verbiage from the "Bare Aluminum Finish Care" section for your quick reference, since alot of nonsense gets posted here about the maintenance of the bare aluminum finish, whether brushed or polished:


"Bare aluminum finish care

Leaving your car in bare aluminum is a great way to show off your roadster and let others know that it isn't a dune buggy. Most of these cars don't spend a lot of time in rain, snow, or other harsh climates so the finish doesn't see a lot of abuse but there are times when your finish may need some touch up.

For our sanded or brushed finish we recommend water in a spray bottle and paper towels to remove dust and road grime. If the grime is really nasty you can use Windex brand window cleaner. (Some brands of cleaner will actually stain the aluminum so be sure to test your cleaner in an inconspicuous area of the car.) If your car does get rained on, wipe it off if possible so that the rain will not spot the car. Customers in smoggy areas should clean the water off quickly so that it doesn't etch into the car.

If you do get a stain or scratch in the finish, you can use sandpaper and Scotch-Brite pads to "redo" the finish. Use red Scotch-Brite pads and a high quality 120 grit bodywork sandpaper. You can get the sandpaper in sizes precut for a body file board (long and skinny). If you cut these in half they will be about the length of the Scotch-Brite pad.

If the stain or scratch isn't too deep you can use the Scotch-Brite pad to clean up the finish. Brush the finish in long straight strokes going with the "grain" of the finish. Be careful at the end of each stroke so that you do not move across the grain. If you do, it will leave visible scratches. When you first start with the pad it will be "sharp" and cut well, after you use it for a while it will lose its abrasive properties. After the pad wears in it will take a little more effort, but you can still use the pad and for most cars the finish produced with a dull pad will more closely match the finish already on the car.

For deeper scratches or blemishes you can use the sandpaper followed by the Scotch-Brite. Start with one of the half sheets of 120 grit paper. Fold a Scotch-Brite pad in half length wise and use it as a backing for the sandpaper. Again, use long straight strokes and go with the grain already on the car. Be careful not to move the sandpaper across the grain or you will be able to see the scratches. The sandpaper will cut pretty aggressively so be cautious. You shouldn't have to use a lot of pressure and you should not spend too much time in one spot. Use long strokes so you don't "flat spot" the place you are trying to fix. Once you have cleaned up the problem area with the sandpaper, use the Scotch-Brite to match the finish to the rest of the car. It is good to tape off any chrome parts (hood handles, headlights, turn lights, etc...) so they do not get scratched. If you are working next to a polished area, tape it off so that you will not accidentally cross over and scratch the polished finish.

For polished areas on the car you can use water or Windex and microfiber towels. If you get a scratch or blemish in a polished area use Mothers aluminum and mag polish and microfiber towels to clean and re-polish. Carefully clean the area with water and then dry with a clean towel. Apply a dab of Mothers to the towel and work it into the area that needs to be polished. Wipe off any excess polish with a clean towel. If you are working next to a brushed finish, tape off the area so that you will not cross over and gum up the brushed finish."



ERA is a fantastic Cobra too built by the wonderful folks in CT who have been doing it for decades. So, whether you buy an ERA or a Kirkham, you'll get a top of the line Cobra with great customer care. Also, both companies will customize your Cobra for you too.

[RodKnock]

And one more thing. Here's a website, which I've purchased product from, which in my opinion, updates the aluminum care section to a certain extent. Perfect Polish sells a product called Nuvite which to the best of my knowledge (very limited at best) is a better polish than anything else on the market, assuming you have polished areas on a Kirkham or if someone puchases a completely polished Kirkham.

Metal Polishing Equipment : Auto Detailing Supplies : Electric Car Polishers : Airplane Polish : Auto Polisher : Aluminum : Polishers and Buffers : PerfectPolish.com

[4pipes]

Originally Posted by Dwight

Kirkham, top of the line, the next would be an orignal Shelby.

If I had one it would be painted.

Dwight

What he said.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

Can anyone suggest how I can learn more about these cars?

It's time for you to actually visit both the Kirkham and ERA folks. You're at a point now where you need to actually touch the cars and see them with your own two eyes. They are different. But you need not worry about the aluminum holding up, denting from hail, tarnishing, etc. You do need to decide, in your own mind, whether an aluminum skin is something you really want. If so, Kirkham is your only choice.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

If you have the funds, Kirkham, if you do not ERA.


Really, that is all that needs to be said.


Bill S.

Exactly what he said!

Originally Posted by Dwight

Kirkham, top of the line, the next would be an orignal Shelby.

If I had one it would be painted.

Dwight

Not exactly what he said... but the sentiment is there...

1) I'd prefer it unpainted!!!

2) Nor do I think that an original is a better car... Controversial point? Yes!
Though, I'd certainly agree it's more "expensive" car due mostly to its history, most I dare say would have to agree (even if reluctantly), that the "upgrades" offered by both ERA & Kirkham would make them "better" than original, No?

For me - I'd go billet bits any day, and twice a day on the weekends!
Plus a couple words quickly come to mind... "Mig Jet Factory"
Thus one more vote here for Kirkham!


PS - Expanded version:
Remember the body of a Kirkham is not made to the same weak tolerances of an original AC. The metallurgy is improved and thus stronger!
I recall a video of someone jumping up and down on a formed fended trying to bend it to no avail!
This denting business is in my humble opinion is somewhat over exaggerated

Either way I'd be happy to have either in my garage.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You do need to decide, in your own mind, whether an aluminum skin is something you really want. If so, Kirkham is your only choice.

Then again, there are those CSX continuation Alu cars... but what can I say...

You are right again!!!

[4pipes]

Hey, my avatar traded places.

[LMH]

In terms of accuracy of the body, both are very accurate to original. Each is copied from a different original though.
Larry

[Flygirl]

Wow, thanks guys. And thanks for the links and info, too.

Research is continuing.

And, a point of clarification, I'm actually looking at used Kirkham(s) as opposed to a new one. Although I'm definitely experiencing budget creep upward, there's no way it'll creep that far up, I'm afraid.

[fastd]

For me, I chose ERA (289 FIA) for a couple of reasons:
1. It was cheaper
2. At first, I thought that I "needed" aluminum. However, I read somewhere that Shelby originally wanted fiberglass but then stumbled onto AC - I am sure the historians on this website will help me straighten my facts. That allowed me to feel better about fiberglass.
3. To me, the Kirkham is a museum quality, near perfect (better than the original) reproduction; I wanted to "drive" mine hard if I wanted to without worry - it seemed like the ERA would allow me to do that. I also got a little intimidated by aluminum in terms of durability and repair.
4. The ERA look I think is perfect and I think it is engineered in way that is so much better than the original, but with the proper amount of respect for the original shape and design.
5. Resale value: I think that they are both pretty close.
6. I live on the East Coast and the guys at ERA are great; the shop is worth the trip. I betcha if I lived on the West Coast, I probably would have bought a Kirkham.

Good luck.

[AL427SBF]

Money not being a consideration, the Kirkham seems to be the recognized "top of the line" replica. The Complete Guide To Cobra Replicas always gives Kirkham top billing. But this discussion did trigger a question - what are the chassis+body weights of the Kirkham vs. ERA?
----

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

It's time for you to actually visit both the Kirkham and ERA folks. You're at a point now where you need to actually touch the cars and see them with your own two eyes.

I agree. If you really have $70-75k+ to spend on your first Cobra then you need to visit Kirkham and ERA.

Originally Posted by patrickt

But you need not worry about the aluminum holding up, denting from hail, tarnishing, etc.

I disagree. You need to worry about these things a lot. Anyone can fix fiberglass, and its tougher than a Texas mule. An aluminum-skinned car that is already a friggin' attention magnet is a different beast.

One other thing to beware of: You said you wanted no racing harnesses, rollbars or sidepipes. Its illegal in all 50 states to own a Kirkham without those items.

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I agree. If you really have $70-75k+ to spend on your first Cobra then you need to visit Kirkham and ERA.

I guess I'm exploring the options to determine if going further and further up the price curve (which seems to be geometric and gets really steep really quickly) is worth it or not to me.

I can be a bit obsessive and seem to have high standards when it comes to automobiles. And over the years I've found I like to grow into things that initially seem a bit too much for me. On the other hand, I don't want another case of Porsche-itis where I can't drive the thing at all.

What I'm doing is giving myself a course in the different choices, so when I do decide I'll have a reasonable chance of getting what (at this time) is right for me.

Those price points really strain to the absolute limit the funds I've allocated to my car budget. At this moment pushing against the upper boundary to see what it feels like, before I may head back down again.

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I disagree. You need to worry about these things a lot. Anyone can fix fiberglass, and its tougher than a Texas mule. An aluminum-skinned car that is already a friggin' attention magnet is a different beast.

One other thing to beware of: You said you wanted no racing harnesses, rollbars or sidepipes. Its illegal in all 50 states to own a Kirkham without those items.

Yeh, I can see how in the real world the brushed aluminum might draw even more attention than usual. It's easy to think of these cars in the abstract, on their own, as beautiful pieces of mechanical artwork.

Didn't know that about the roll bar and shoulder harnesses especially, that's a big bummer for me. Why is that, might I ask? I'd be curious if most police officers would know enough about the Kirkham to cite me for no roll bar, though.

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Money not being a consideration, the Kirkham seems to be the recognized "top of the line" replica. The Complete Guide To Cobra Replicas always gives Kirkham top billing. But this discussion did trigger a question - what are the chassis+body weights of the Kirkham vs. ERA?
----

I'll check again, I was under the impression that the Kirkham is a couple of hundred or so pounds lighter than the ERA when similarly equipped.

____________

Feeling a bit self conscious at the moment. I don't want to come across as some wealthy woman who just throws money around. This is a big, big deal for me and I've saved for a long time to accumulate the money I have in my car fund (although buying a Cobra is a more recent development and that's why I'm doing my research now). I also expect more sacrifices in the future once some amount of those funds have been spent.

What I don't want to have happen is to have saved and sacrificed and then ended up with something that's not quite right, and feel bitter about that choice. For all I know, I might end up with a new SPF and a sweet running, lightweight small block/five speed street roadster. It's all open at this point.

[decooney]

Flygirl,

1. How do you REALLY plan to use the car, and how often?

2. What is "most" important to you about the car?

3. What is "next" most important to you about the car?