289FIA Kirkham @ Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I can certainly tell you it wasn't about my choice of the Ford Racing 363 that determined the price.

My disagreement is based on over 25 years in this industry. At least with Kirkhams, non-original motors absolutely kill the resale value of our cars in every instance I have seen. We had three of our 289 Hybrids change hands in the past year or so that I know of. The other two sold for around $85,000. We had at least two (that I can think of off the top of my head) of our 427 cars change hands last year that were very nice--one for $155,000 and one for $165,000 (note, I don't know the actual selling price, I only know what the customers told me). As I mentioned, Kirkham 289 Hybrids are a tiny, niche market with very few customers. There also are many other issues with your car that I can see as making your car potentially challenging to sell.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

That car had non stop attention.

That is certainly my experience when we take our cars out too. I'm happy to hear the BJ crowd felt the same way about the polished aluminum body.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I hate to tell y'all, but the cobra market is in a decline.

I have heard the same thing from many people...for the past 25 years...

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

The other factor was that the polished finished scratched by people barely touching the car or brushing up against it. That is no fault to the Kirkhams, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is not worth it. Plus, the car had swirls and scratches from buffing when it arrived from the Kirkhams.

If you touch any high quality paint job it will scratch by "barely touching the car." That is why most cars at Concours have "Please Do Not Touch" signs on them. Even the dust under your finger will scratch the paint.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

The hood and dash were a mess...And, they blamed me for the hood that had huge holes around the scoop, which I had nothing to do with. They replaced the hood, but the blame was still attributed to me. It was always as if I owed them something, even when screwed over.

Yes, your hood was a mess when we received your car back (email to you 24 April 2017) "When my guys were working on your first hood, they found a hole in it, right by the scoop. Those things happen. I thought you had sent the hood with some sanding marks in it, but I also knew there were some welding marks in your hood originally. Either way didn't matter to me because you have been a good customer; so, I decided it was easier for us just to fix it. Even we just go through an edge sometimes--it happens...It's really easy to catch an edge, especially with 80 grit--but like I said, no big deal."

On 20 April 2017 you send me this email, "Thanks David! I only sanded on the hood with a DA sander with 80 grit for a few seconds, so I'm not sure how it could have had a hole from what I did. I was terrified to work on the aluminum and that was why I only experimented briefly with sanding with my DA and 80 grit."

It doesn't take long for someone who is inexperienced to ruin aluminum (or paint, or anything if you hit it with the edge of the paper). I understood you really didn't have any way to fix it and were in a bind. So, I stepped up (like I try to do for all my customers) and just gave you a new hood to replace the hood that had been destroyed. I didn't quibble with you--I replaced your hood for free.

On Invoice 7898 I wrote, "DISCOUNT--replace hood, aluminum was filed and sanded too thin, had a hole -$1,995."

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

and I was charged in state local taxes as well to bump it to 16K even though i am in Alabama.

Interestingly, just this morning I was in my office with my accountant and on the phone with my lawyer on this devilishly complex question. (The Supreme Court just threw another major monkey wrench in the works). Regardless, sales tax has to be paid one way or another, even on purchases made out of state.

https://revenue.alabama.gov/sales-use/faq/

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

One debacle after the other....options added, options subtracted, no leather dash, random hole in dash, crap ass futura tires instead of quality tires, and always an excuse.

We always deliver our rollers with "roll around" tires. Assembly by the customer, and especially brushing or polishing, takes a LOT of time. Your car was initially delivered in 2014 and not many people choose to have their expensive tires dry rotting for years while they finish their car. It's the customer's choice what they want to purchase.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

That was my experience and it took almost two years to get my car because they love shelby so much and provided cars to them first.

You ordered a highly specialized, custom car--they take time to make.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

And every time I called and managed to get someone on the phone, they would be yelling in Spanish to someone in the background. The running joke at the auction is that now David picks up his empolyees at the local Home Depot.

Honestly, did you really mean to write this?

Yes, I speak Spanish (and Polish) quite fluently. I'm proud of the Mexicans, "Polaks," and Americans who make our cars. Make all the jokes you want--my guys are the best in the world and I stand up for them.

Do you have a problem with me hiring Mexicans, including US citizens of Mexican descent? Aristeo is 74 and he is the first one here at work--every day--for the past 15 some years. He has a disabled daughter so he walked across the desert to get a higher paying job--sweeping floors and washing dishes. For untold years he sent money back to Mexico to support his wife and children. He became a US citizen to better his wages and was ultimately able to bring his family up to live with him here in Utah.

I'll end with a picture I took today of another one of our "Mexicans," Carlos. Incidentally, he also comes to work every day, pays his mortgage, and supports his wife and kids. Hell, I even drink Coronas with him occasionally. Carlos was brought to the US when he was 1 month old--he probably didn't have much say in the matter. He struggled through the maze (and horrendous expense) of US Immigration and legally obtained his Residency. Later he married a beautiful girl from the US and now supports his family.

Carlos is an absolute magician with aluminum.

This is a 50th Anniversary Shelby Daytona Coupe that Carlos just finished polishing.

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Phx Mike

I have had nothing but great support from David and his guys.

My Kirkham was in the shop last year for maintenance, minor upgrades and new tires. Eleven years after purchase, David replaced a not-so-inexpensive non-Kirkham manufactured part “under warranty.”

Outstanding support over the years.

BTW, does Carlos take vacations to the SF Bay Area?

[cobrakiwi]

Over the past many years I have purchased cars, and many parts from David
(Kirkham Motorsports), never a problem.
If something was not right David always went out of is way to correct the issue.

I have been to there workplace a couple of times, I was treated with the utmost respect and very much enjoyed myself.

Other members of his staff went out of there way to talk and give support and answer any questions I had for them.

Unlike other vendors in this car community it has been my experience Kirkham Motorsports is a stand-up company to do business with.

Thank you David

[patrickt]

This sort of thing pops up every view years. But, the truth is, if you've been in the same business for decades, and you have customers lined up waiting for your product, then you're probably not screwing people over even intermittently -- much less on a regular basis. Everybody hates to lose a buck on a deal, but it happens. And nobody hits them out of the park every single day. Just pick up the pieces, and move on....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

There also are many other issues with your car that I can see as making your car potentially challenging to sell.

That's what I was saying up-thread, after reviewing Resto's build thread.

I think he deviated or he pegged too far right on the "Cobra Replica Authenticity Meter & Image Test" aka CRAMIT for short.

[dacobb]

OK, let me get this straight...a Kirkham with the wrong body, wrong engine, pitted and dented exterior, and it still fetches $95K in a somewhat down market?

What exactly am I missing here?

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by dacobb

OK, let me get this straight...a Kirkham with the wrong body, wrong engine, pitted and dented exterior, and it still fetches $95K in a somewhat down market?

What exactly am I missing here?

Don’t forget the “roller” tires.
In my humble opinion, the right buyers just weren’t there. I saw the car on Thursday and it was gorgeous. The buyer got a smokin’ deal.
I’ve talked to 5 or 6 Kirkham owners and admired their cars in the past. All of them are happy with their car. Someday I might own one too.

[King- cobra]

I had one of David's hybrid 289 slabsides. It was a great car and I got $125,000 several years ago for it. It was a painted car with a 302 stroker and five speed. At the time that was as much as 427 Kirkhams were bringing. I have owned several of David's cars and even visited the old shop when I was in town. Is he difficult to reach at times yes, what business owner isn't. He has been nothing but helpful everytime I reach out to him. As for the poor sales price, if you remember I offered you much more than you received at BJ several years ago. This is a hobby and it is very difficult to make money on a hobby.
Just my two cents.

[Dar73]

I guarantee you the person that purchased this car doesn't know a Hybrid Chassis from a hole in the wall.... BJ provides a one paragraph synopsis of the car, a few pictures and adios amigo, it gets what it gets, then you give 10% back and wonder what went wrong. Welcome to the world of no reserve auctions..... RestoCreations starts the thread with glowing details of how great the car is, then immediately turns tail when it crosses the block. Comes off lame. My few dealings with Dave Kirkham have been very pleasant. It's low rent to vent your frustrations after the sale and blame Kirkham.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Dar73

I guarantee you the person that purchased this car doesn't know a Hybrid Chassis from a hole in the wall.... BJ provides a one paragraph synopsis of the car, a few pictures

BJ does not provide any info. All info is provided by the seller. BJ does not in general vouch for its correctness, exceptions being for Corvette HP number (which is provided with the car by GM) and some claims of "numbers matching".

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I just lost 35k tonight on my 289FIA Kirkham. I’ll never own another. To all, I would suggest never purchasing a polished finish!!! It’s a nightmare and a rip off. It never looked good and as soon as you touch it there are scratches. The car is no longer mine so I can now speak the truth. Paint it! The cars are wonderful works of art, but a polished body or stripes are a nightmare. All the best to the Kirkhams, they are truly artists, but I would never order or pay 16k for a polished finish again!!!

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

After much thought, I have reduced the price to 129,900, which is about what it would cost to build the car with all options if you did every bit of the work yourself. I was a bit exaggerated with my initial price.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

After much thought, she is headed back to Kirkham to be fully polished. Now if reliable carriers would just be reliable and pick the car up!!!

After trying to the sell the car for $130,000 (roughly his cost w/no labor), unsuccessfully, Resto decided to spend $16,000 to fully polish the body. With shipping back and forth from/to AL, let's say then the total cost of the car was $150,000 rounded. Again, not including his labor, allegedly. Resto netted $95,000 at auction. He lost $35,000?

I'm no mathematician, but I'm missing something. Either the loss was larger or the car's cost wasn't $150,000 all in. At any rate, I just think the global markets are jittery right now and now wasn't the best time to sell a Cobra replica.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm no mathematician, but I'm missing something. Either the loss was larger or the car's cost wasn't $150,000 all in.

But I bet you can show him how to move that hobby loss right over in to an ordinary business expense category.

[Dar73]

RodKnock.... your net is High, that was the sale price but both buyer and seller pay 10% commissions. By the time you register the car, transport it, detail it, etc.... you're in for another 5K. He will net about 80 grand.....

[Smurf_GT]

I purchased a used Kirkham last Summer. I sent a message to David and he called me back. I requested information on my car and David posted a ton of photos per my request. He was gracious and was willing to answer all my question. I asked to purchase a new overflow tank and he took the order and I received the part in a few days.

Amazing service. Hate to see this type of "banter" but I guess it's pretty normal online.

Sorry to see someone put so much work and not get a good return. I would blame the buyer. What a jerk for bidding so low.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dar73

RodKnock.... your net is High, that was the sale price but both buyer and seller pay 10% commissions. By the time you register the car, transport it, detail it, etc.... you're in for another 5K. He will net about 80 grand.....

Eh, what do I know about auctions.

So, instead of a $55,000 loss, it's now $70,000? Now we're talking some real money.

[rodneym]

"real"-ity is relative.
At least that's what Black Mirror tells me to think.

[RUFdriver]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

BJ does not provide any info. All info is provided by the seller. BJ does not in general vouch for its correctness, exceptions being for Corvette HP number (which is provided with the car by GM) and some claims of "numbers matching".

You have to do your homework at Barrett-Jackson or any auction, the auction docket is listed for weeks before the auction, it’s auite easy. For example , there was a particular Porsche at BJ I was interested in bidding, so I researched the car, ran the VIN etc (Google is a great tool). And low and behold it had quite the negative history , smacked a wall at the track/ blown engine etc..., needless to say I passed.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by LMH

At a local Cars and Coffee get together a few month ago, there was a Kirkham 427 that was unpainted, kind of dirty, wheels had brake dust on them, engine wasn't bright and shinny... you get the idea. I liked it and I usually don't like unpainted cars. The body was what I would describe as oxidized brushed. Beyond filed for sure but not polished! It had a 'used' look to it, a couple road scars, a couple small dents but it was pretty cool! Only thing I didn't like was the polished stripes but whatever.
Larry

Rat rod Cobra?

I like it - I really like that look.

As to the stripes, they could always be painted, taped or brushed to match the rest of the finish.