How do you answer, "Is it real?"

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I bet you didn't know that ponent meant the area of the setting sun, which is usually the west. Of course, you can then add the prefix op to it or com to it, as you see fit, or, As You Like It, if you're more prone to pastoral comedies.

Time for your medication.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Shelby sells a kit now, not a completed car, because the car doesn't meet current Federal safety and emissions laws.

Factual, yet selectively presented to meet an agenda. "Rollers" are sold as such so that the creator doesn't have to be a manufacturer, and yes, you can't "manufacture" to today's specs, but that includes all those making 32 Fords and Mustangs. In some ways, all "Rollers" are a loophole.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Time for your medication.

And I thought you were going to write "who on earth would write a comedy about a pastor?"

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Your opinion isn't a fact. It's an opinion. Read the World Registry or just read Ned Scudder's comments in the old thread.

good grief. Tell us, precisely what isn't factual there?

The "World Registry" has become an obsolete work. Noone cares any more, and what in it made it the sole source? It's a collection of random facts. And it's relevance is asymptotically approaching zero. Since it now includes only originals, and since the pay grade of all of the original owners is way above anything what that book includes, it's market is those interested academically in one or more of the cars. It's a coffee table book at best. Eliminating the replicas cut the potential customer base in more than half and alienated the owners that were in the book so they won't buy one at all, probably not even the previous version. Brilliant going out of business strategy. I almost bought one until I saw what it had and then went to a public location and photographed some relevant pages and saved myself a whole bunch of money. Is it printed in stock in a warehouse or is now print on demand? Or will it be printed at all?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

good grief. Tell us, precisely what isn't factual there?

The "World Registry" has become an obsolete work. Noone cares any more, and what in it made it the sole source? It's a collection of random facts. And it's relevance is asymptotically approaching zero. Since it now includes only originals, and since the pay grade of all of the original owners is way above anything what that book includes, it's market is those interested academically in one or more of the cars. It's a coffee table book at best. Eliminating the replicas cut the potential customer base in more than half and alienated the owners that were in the book so they won't buy one at all, probably not even the previous version. Brilliant going out of business strategy. I almost bought one until I saw what it had and then went to a public location and photographed some relevant pages and saved myself a whole bunch of money. Is it printed in stock in a warehouse or is now print on demand? Or will it be printed at all?

So you haven't read the book, but copied a few relevant pages? I'll guess that you probably copied a page on your old green/gold Shelby replica. Hilarious. You have an opinion on something you haven't read, wow, well there you go.

I choose to believe one of the world's foremost authorities on Cobras, Ned Scudder, and the Shelby World Registry, which compiled facts/info on Cobras or you. I choose the former, not the latter.

I also choose to believe that the Cobras produced by Shelby, or the diluted version of Shelby, 30 years later, some in fiberglass or carbon fiber no less, are replicas.

Plain and simple.

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

The "original maker" no longer really exists. The Shelby company has been sold at least a couple times and then went public. If Shelby retains any ownership, then it's a minority interest and diluted at best.

They're replicas and it's expressely stated as such in the 2008 World Registry. That's evidence. And the leading expert of the original and only real Cobras stated their replicas.

the original maker is no other than CS, and at least until 2012 he had all the rights to build his car under his name and if you read the 2008 carefully it is stated that the later csx are not replicas.
nobody claims they are 62-67 originals.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Factual, yet selectively presented to meet an agenda. "Rollers" are sold as such so that the creator doesn't have to be a manufacturer, and yes, you can't "manufacture" to today's specs, but that includes all those making 32 Fords and Mustangs. In some ways, all "Rollers" are a loophole.

Not sure what your point is here.

A Cobra cannot meet Federal safety and emissions laws, thus they can't be driven off the dealer's lot by the new owners and registered by the dealer.

Here in CA, they have to go through the SPCNS/SB100 procedure(s), which involves B&L BAR and CHP inspections. You don't have to do that with a 2019 Honda Civic or whatever.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

the original maker is no other than CS, and at least until 2012 he had all the rights to build his car under his name and if you read the 2008 carefully it is stated that the later csx are not replicas.
nobody claims they are 62-67 originals.

The "original maker" is long gone. Diluted by leveraged buyouts. CS sold out long ago.

Yes, the 2008 Registry does state they're replicas. Have read the term "true replica" in the Registry? It's there among other references.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So you haven't read the book, but copied a few relevant pages? I'll guess that you probably copied a page on your old green/gold Shelby replica. Hilarious. You have an opinion on something you haven't read, wow, well there you go.

I choose to believe one of the world's foremost authorities on Cobras, Ned Scudder, and the Shelby World Registry, which compiled facts/info on Cobras or you. I choose the former, not the latter.

I also choose to believe that the Cobras produced by Shelby, or the diluted version of Shelby, 30 years later, some in fiberglass or carbon fiber no less, are replicas.

Plain and simple.

I didn't say I didn't read it, only that I copied what was relevant to me. In all I will assert that anyone reading it will find it to be boring and monotonous and only a few pages of interest to those that own that particular car. True, it is full of interesting facts, but the market that will buy an expensive book like that for all those factoids is very limited. Libraries. But it's not even available at the library in Vegas.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

nobody claims they are 62-67 originals.

Well duh. No one, as far as I know, has ever said the Shelby replicas are originals.

The Sheby replicas are, well, replicas, produced 30 years after the originals. Are they real Shelby Cobras? No, not in my opinion. Real Shelby Cobras were produced from 1962-1967. Those are the only real Shelby Cobras. The others are clones, replicas, etc.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I didn't say I didn't read it, only that I copied what was relevant to me. In all I will assert that anyone reading it will find it to be boring and monotonous and only a few pages of interest to those that own that particular car.

Anyone reading it? Well, I didn't find it boring or monotonous, nor I'm sure anyone who paid to own one, instead of those violating copyright laws by copying pages.

You would only find it boring, if you didn't like the facts and stories on each car listed in the book.

BTW, I don't believe you read the entire book. I have several times.

[peterpjb]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well duh. No one, as far as I know, has ever said the Shelby replicas are originals.

The Sheby replicas are, well, replicas, produced 30 years after the originals. Are they real Shelby Cobras? No, not in my opinion. Real Shelby Cobras were produced from 1962-1967. Those are the only real Shelby Cobras. The others are clones, replicas, etc.

simple facts:

are they Shelbys? yes
are they Cobras? yes, (Shelby has the rights for the name)
so why should they be replicas?

I believe in facts and not in opinions
but hey, you can repeat your opinion as often you like, it has no relevance and I don’t care

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

simple facts:

are they Shelbys? yes
are they Cobras? yes, (Shelby has the rights for the name)
so why should they be replicas?

i believe in facts and not in opinions
but hey, you can repeat your opinion as often you like, it has no relevance and i don’t care

As has been shown here many times, you're arguing with a brick wall. Fortunately, the Continuation Cobras continue to sell all they can make, and used versions regularly sell for more than they cost. (In fact, of the owners I made contact with while I had mine, all sold for a tidy profit, as did I. And Evan.) That may be what upsets them the most.

[Jaydee]

I saw a funny sign traveling in Uerope, "antiques made daily" JD

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

I saw a funny sign traveling in Uerope, "antiques made daily" JD

Most of the members around here are becoming antiques.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well duh. No one, as far as I know, has ever said the Shelby replicas are originals.

The Sheby replicas are, well, replicas, produced 30 years after the originals. Are they real Shelby Cobras? No, not in my opinion. Real Shelby Cobras were produced from 1962-1967. Those are the only real Shelby Cobras. The others are clones, replicas, etc.

how in the hell can a shelby be a replica of a shelby? these comments are stupid...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

how in the hell can a shelby be a replica of a shelby? these comments are stupid...

Yes, any comment that disagrees with yours is considered "stupid." Of course.

My witty comeback is that anyone that thinks his post-1967 Shelby Cobra is a real Shelby Cobra has paid a large premium for a car that he/she believes has more value than any other replica just because of the Shelby name. I'm not buying the marketing "hype." Nor do I think they're "real."

The bottom line is that Shelby didn't want to call them replicas, so he came up with another name. It's right there in the 2008 Shelby World Registry. And one of the world's foremost Cobra experts states that the modern Shelbys are replicas.

If you read the old 64-page thread, then there's several posts where we discuss examples of companies reproducing items, such as watches for example, that are replicas of their original version.

30-40-50 years later, your Shelby Cobra replica uses completely different parts and materials, 1960's versus 2010's, and body too, it's a replica of the original real Shelby Cobra. And it's delivered incomplete. Engine, transmission, alignment, exhaust, etc. to be purchased and/or installed by owner. Just like the 1960's.

As I said, you can call it a real Shelby Cobra, you more than welcome to cling to that "religion." What do I care. But I, and at least Ned Scudder, know your Shelby is a replica.

For me, I wouldn't pay any premium for a Shelby. Buy a Kirkham, keep the Shelby badges. And if you own a fiberglass Shelby, then, well, er, uh, moving on now. (We all know Shelby never made a fiberglass Cobra in the 1960's)

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, any comment that disagrees with yours is considered "stupid." Of course.

My witty comeback is that anyone that thinks his post-1967 Shelby Cobra is a real Shelby Cobra has paid a large premium for a car that he/she believes has more value than any other replica just because of the Shelby name. I'm not buying the "hype." Nor do I think they're "real."

The bottom line is that Shelby didn't want to call them replicas, so he came up with another name. It's right there in the 2008 Shelby World Registry. And one of the world's foremost Cobra experts states that the modern Shelbys are replicas.

If you read the old 64-page thread, then there's several posts where we discuss examples of companies reproducing items, such as watches for example, that are replicas of their original version.

30-40-50 years later, your Shelby Cobra replica uses completely different parts and materials, 1960's versus 2010's, and body too, it's a replica of the original real Shelby Cobra. And it's delivered incomplete. Engine, transmission, alignment, exhaust, etc. to be purchased and/or installed by owner. Just like the 1960's.

As I said, you can call it a real Shelby Cobra, you more than welcome to cling to that "religion." What do I care. But I, and at least Ned Scudder, know your Shelby is a replica.

For me, I wouldn't pay any premium for a Shelby. Buy a Kirkham, keep the Shelby badges. And if you own a fiberglass Shelby, then, well, er, uh, moving on now.

You know, you keep repeating this stuff. There is no factual statement from Shelby that he invented the term "continuation", only the unverified claim in the Registry, which is not a definitive source of Shelby's business practices or intent. So you can continue to claim it since it suits your agenda, but it's nothing more than hearsay.

Also, your claim that Shelby is owned by someone else is flat out blatantly false. The information as to the evolution to Carroll Shelby International is available. Shelby was majority owner (by about 70%). Presuming that went to his estate the family still is in control by a large margin. Surely you don't think that if someone else owned it things wouldn't have changed?

You can argue til you're blue in the face but it won't change the facts.

[patrickt]

Uhhh, RodKnock… have the conditions in the Bay area finally gotten to you? You seem to be more "on the edge" than you used to be. That dog is going to be good for your mental health.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

As has been shown here many times, you're arguing with a brick wall. Fortunately, the Continuation Cobras continue to sell all they can make, and used versions regularly sell for more than they cost. (In fact, of the owners I made contact with while I had mine, all sold for a tidy profit, as did I. And Evan.) That may be what upsets them the most.

Sure, they made a "profit." We always make a "profit" when selling our cars.

Of course, there's the time value of money, gas, insurance, registration, repairs, upgrades, etc. to consider too.

Oh, let's not forget the fact that in the last decade the S&P 500 has roughly tripled in value.

If I sell my Kirkham now, then I'll make a profit too. Profits aren't limited to only one brand of Cobra replica. I haven't checked lately, but Kirkham's and ERA's production has about 1-2 year wait list. In fact, the Kirkham's moved to a larger facility.

BTW, Evan claimed he sold his car for a lot of money, but someone here on CC has posted that was a lie. More internet stories of fabulous wealth tp be gained by owning a Shelby replica.