Kirkham 427 on eBay addition/correction

[Steve Kirkham]

As has been pointed out to me:

The listing for the Kirkham 427 auction on eBay closing in 3 hours. eBay #2404261964 shows a picture with a windshield. The description does not mention one.

A windshield and aluminum frame are included in the auction.

Sorry for any confusion.

Thank you.

Steve Kirkham

[southernfriedcj]

The car brought 30k, I bet we'll see more 427's on Ebay.

[ToyCollector]

Your deal is looking pretty darn good, isn't it? Wish they sold Ford Powerstroke's this way Hope to see more of these. The Kirkham's are really wise to use this medium. It's free market at it's best, and it also price rationalizes the aftermarket as well. I say bring it on--I've been bidding, I've just been too cheap to win...so far.

[Lew Ledyard]

Steve:

Can you throw in some wiper blades too? I did not expect the price to go so high.

Lew

[ToyCollector]

A fair ask I say

[southernfriedcj]

Congrats, Lew!
TC, the best I can do on Powerstrokes is invoice and the buyer gets any rebates. That used to be a good deal, but these days I don't know.

[ToyCollector]

Congrats Lew!!

[Lew Ledyard]

Thanks guys. I'll definitely keep you posted.

Lew

[Bill Wells]

mssrs kirkhams :

with all due respect to a quality product, whats up with the barn sales on ebay ? seems to me you have relegated your cars to a wholesale kit car scenario now. one price on one adv, another price on another adv. pick the day, pick the week, one price one time and another price another time

if i was a kirkham customer of yore who paid full retail for any car resembling any of the recent ebay postings, and saw the same product i paid the big bucks for being sold at bargain basement pricing , i would be a po'd cowboy ! and if i was a prior buyer of a complete engineless roller i would say the same thing ! it seems to me your ebay venture is diluting the current value of your products as well as the value of the cars already sold,either roller or kit form and will have negative impact in the future

and of course the value of the finished product is diminished similarly...who built it ? what are the other components, ie, new or used...personally, i think this recent direction on your part will do you more harm in the long run than good. kinda like the FFR guys (hey, not flaming anyone here , but as an example)...a FFR turnkey by a private commercial builder using all NEW parts is a 40K car easy...a kit on the other hand by a backyard assembler using donor used parts is a 22-25k car. ok, dont hold me to the cross over those numbers, but the point is : the guy with the pro built 40k car can never recover his investment due to the many offerings for sale of the lower priced used part donor cars. hence the 22-25k car is a good value and limited loss in invesment as that price tends to set the water level for the others making the hgher valued cars harder to sell by comparison.

first questions asked is : who did it, what are the parts ( new/used etc), what is the aptitude/ability of the constructor etc. now try to sell a big buck pro built kirkham after the market gets glutted with lower priced cars by someone stealing an ebay kirkham kit and using lesser quality parts to finish the job ! like a 40k ffr vs a 25k ffr....are you really going to pay 80k for the kirkham when someone else can now do one for 50k ? dunno...but seems to me to be a big marketing boo boo. i have held kirkhams in high regard, but right now i don't know if i would have the interest in one. i will pay a competitive price but dont want to pay a premium when next week it might be 10k less...

just my $ .02 worth. i don't want to start a war here, but i spent 30 yrs in the automotive biz in marketing and sales and this path will lead you down the roto rooter path of digging yourself further and further away from a prior strong reputation for oustsanding products of high quality. your products will now become the victims of the folks who put them together, and those folks are not you !!!the dont have your higher quality levels in mind. sure some do, many may, but not all when the get the bargain of the week to start with .

lower quality as the end result will cost you in the long run reputation and value wise. again, not wanting to start a flame war here, anyone can read my prior posts and see that i usually (99%) of the time stay away from any bashing or controversy...but i just hate to see the current trend as it will not work in the long run and the short term damage will have long term negative impact. bill .

[wtcobra]

Kirkham's- I support your efforts to sell your products anyway you want for whatever the market will bear. I have always thought if you or SAI decided to market your products differently you would capture a larger share of the market. Sort of like incentives the Big Three come up with now and then such as rebates, zero financing, and loyalty bonuses. Run your business the way you see fit. I can't believe people would purchase a replica Cobra and not expect to lose some money when they want to sell later, and any negative comments you receive will be predicated upon what effect your actions have on the value of other replicas, particularly the replicas of the ones who choose to chastise your marketing efforts. Your efforts may hurt all of us(except those who have 427 FE engines may fair better as those engines should increase in value if you drop your prices) with competitive pricing on your part as,
who in their right mind would want anything but a Kirkham if it is priced comparable to the other replicas?

WT

[Bud Man]

As Abe Lincoln once said, when the young girl put her foot into the stocking:

"I think there's something in this"

Seriously, I see both Bill's and wt's arguments. Both have captured their respective viewpoints well, and I really have little to add. From a business perspective, I have always believed that for the Kirkham's Cobra replica business to remain viable over the long term, an effort to achieve mass appeal thru greater affordability might be necessary. Not every person who covets one of these cars has the disposable income necessary to just order a car, powerplant, write a fat check and wait for delivery. Having said that, I do agree that ebay may not be the ideal venue to pursue that strategy...

I bought KMP #142 about 2 years ago as a semi-complete (65%)roller and took delivery on it in August 2001. It has always exceeded my expectations and the Kirkhams have been a delight to work with. The build has been fun and anyone who has seen 142 will attest to it's build quality. I will put it up against a "pro built" car any day. I have never regretted it.

But I have to admit, after seeing these last couple of auctions...

----I might have been better off to wait a while......

My .02 cents, also.

Bud

PS: Congrats, Lew on your great car!

[Allan A]

Bill,

My thoughts exactly, I would also like to add that it seems that the Kirkhams are taking advantage of this wonderful site. Brent (I believe the person who started and owns this site) must spend many thankless hours working to keeping this site operational. Shouldn’t he receive some compensation from people who want to sell Cobra related products? The Kirkhams obviously do not think so since they have pumped every e-bay auction they have with multiple postings to keep it in sight. In my business you have to pay to play, and that is how things work.

As for the owners of the Kirkham cars, unless you purchased on e-bay you have just been hijacked. I too am not interested in starting a fire but I just call it like I see it.

Allan

Brent, Thanks for a great site!

[750hp]

Allan - you might not want to start a fire, but I'd sure like to dump the contents of an extinguisher on your attitude....

Do you think, therefore that Team Jenny (via DV's tireless work) have benefitted by Kirkham GIVING away a large portion of a complete car, not forgetting of course the generosity of those members that responded to THIS THREAD Should Team Jenny therefore pay Brent also???

I'd like to think that Brent can see the goodwill and benefit of what the Kirkhams are doing for the Cobra community via Team Jenny, and be gracious enough not to pester them about advertising their auctions here. Who cares if they sell a few extra cars as a result of the goodwill generated? Good luck to them, I say.

I hope Brent makes it to the Fling, so that I can buy him a beer as some small thank you for providing this sight - a sight where miracles happen, Yes, I think the way that the Team Jenny program has benefitted by DV, Kirkham, and all the other donations, and the publicity through this and other Cobra sites, is miraculous - unbelievable.

Unfortunately, some of the other things said on threads such as this one border on incredible, for entirely different reasons.

WOW!!!!......

[KobraKarl]

Guys

Ive got a sony tv in my den i paid $700 for 15 years ago about $1200 if you figure 1985 dollars. I can buy a better set today for $350. Im pretty sure if you look around your own house you will find plenty of your own examples.

If i were to decide to spend 100k on a Cobra ,Iwould buy an SAI
if I were to decide to spend 140k I could choose from many 289 originals, Kirkhams $85 to $95k market may not be that strong, if they can make more money through volume sales( not a new idea) what is wrong with that? Are they suposed to sit back and watch an opportunity to sell hundreds of cars go by to protect previous purchase prices ? they may reach the ERA or SPF buyers or guys like me, who is either going to sit pat with my $35k contemporary, or $100k + on the real deal. but probably will be pusuaded to part with another $10 to $15 to have that much more car

Could this hurt ERA and the other highend glass cars? probably. but that is business .

I also think from every thing that Ive seen written in the past two years ,The Kirkhams reputation as "straight up performers "is not in question and if they end up dominating the Cobra replica market well.........................on what grounds can you object?

Dont we all win?

[Allan A]

Craig,

A gesture to charity is always invited and appreciated no matter how it is done. I donate to charities but I do not choose to be recognized, as I believe it is not a gift if I am going to profit from it. I can only speak for myself, if it was my site I would charge for advertising.

Allan

[wtcobra]

Bill and Allan- do you guys have something against capitalism? I can tell from your above posts that you hold owner built cars in low esteem and that is too bad as I think you truly don't know how many gearheads there are that are capable and do build cars that are as good in every way as a factory built car and many times better. I also think you are lashing out against the Kirkhams because they sold a car for a price that doesn't meet your approval. Hey, look on the bright side as it may give you something to discuss on your private factory built cars website i.e. " are Cobras replicas a good investment "? My thoughts are they are not, but they may be better than our retirement funds if we only lose half of what we paid for them and also were able to enjoy them. I don't feel so bad if I consider that I have had mine for 12 yrs, so I consider losing 3 grand or so a year for 12 years as money well spent for entertainment and stress relief.

wt

[wtcobra]

KOBRAKARL- Your car is worth than 35K, Turk will give you more than that for a virgin.

wt

[750hp]

Well congratulations on your obvious generosity, Allan. Let's look at it from a different perspective then.

You are currently in the Manufacturers Forums.
Specifically - Kirkham Motorsports.

Is it not possible that ClubCobra members, whether they're current or potential future owners of Kirkham cars, might be interested in the contents of the "Kirkham Motorsports Forum" ??? Is this not a correctly located thread to alert ClubCobra members that have an interest in purchasing Kirkham products, that one of their cars is available at what would appear to be a discounted price?

By offering this information to Club Cobra members via a Forum that Brent set up specifically for Kirkham relevant information, isn't that providing some sort of extra value to this website? Everyone wins!

[ToyCollector]

We are witnessing a paradigm shift in the Cobra market, like it or not. Most won't like it (especially all who already own one), but those who assign a premium to aluminum bodies will benefit. Those in the aluminum body business will benefit. I think I know how this will play out, and I congratulate the Kirkhams for taking the risk, which I view as a smart one. The one's who are benefiting in the short term are those smart enough to jump on these early EBay deals as they may be grabbing them at some really good prices. Ultimately, prices should rationalize into "market value". And in this economy, I don't see many people paying premiums just to pay for a name, Shelby excluded of course .

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by Bill Wells


mssrs kirkhams :

with all due respect to a quality product, whats up with the barn sales on ebay ? seems to me you have relegated your cars to a wholesale kit car scenario now. one price on one adv, another price on another adv. pick the day, pick the week, one price one time and another price another time

if i was a kirkham customer of yore who paid full retail for any car resembling any of the recent ebay postings, and saw the same product i paid the big bucks for being sold at bargain basement pricing , i would be a po'd cowboy ! and if i was a prior buyer of a complete engineless roller i would say the same thing ! it seems to me your ebay venture is diluting the current value of your products as well as the value of the cars already sold,either roller or kit form and will have negative impact in the future

and of course the value of the finished product is diminished similarly...who built it ? what are the other components, ie, new or used...personally, i think this recent direction on your part will do you more harm in the long run than good. kinda like the FFR guys (hey, not flaming anyone here , but as an example)...a FFR turnkey by a private commercial builder using all NEW parts is a 40K car easy...a kit on the other hand by a backyard assembler using donor used parts is a 22-25k car. ok, dont hold me to the cross over those numbers, but the point is : the guy with the pro built 40k car can never recover his investment due to the many offerings for sale of the lower priced used part donor cars. hence the 22-25k car is a good value and limited loss in invesment as that price tends to set the water level for the others making the hgher valued cars harder to sell by comparison.

first questions asked is : who did it, what are the parts ( new/used etc), what is the aptitude/ability of the constructor etc. now try to sell a big buck pro built kirkham after the market gets glutted with lower priced cars by someone stealing an ebay kirkham kit and using lesser quality parts to finish the job ! like a 40k ffr vs a 25k ffr....are you really going to pay 80k for the kirkham when someone else can now do one for 50k ? dunno...but seems to me to be a big marketing boo boo. i have held kirkhams in high regard, but right now i don't know if i would have the interest in one. i will pay a competitive price but dont want to pay a premium when next week it might be 10k less...

just my $ .02 worth. i don't want to start a war here, but i spent 30 yrs in the automotive biz in marketing and sales and this path will lead you down the roto rooter path of digging yourself further and further away from a prior strong reputation for oustsanding products of high quality. your products will now become the victims of the folks who put them together, and those folks are not you !!!the dont have your higher quality levels in mind. sure some do, many may, but not all when the get the bargain of the week to start with .

lower quality as the end result will cost you in the long run reputation and value wise. again, not wanting to start a flame war here, anyone can read my prior posts and see that i usually (99%) of the time stay away from any bashing or controversy...but i just hate to see the current trend as it will not work in the long run and the short term damage will have long term negative impact. bill .

Mr. Bill, What's up with the attitude? Did you sell your SPF and pay waaaaaay to much for a Kirkham? Just so you can sleep at night, I'd thought I'd let you know that I didn't steal my Kirkham, I paid $19,101. on Ebay. I would also like to put your mind at ease as to the quality of the finished product, Kirkham Motorsports will complete my car to a roller(I don't want you to be concerned for my safety or resale value), and Southern Automotive will install a SBF and Toploader.
As for the Kirkham's reputation, I think it speaks for itself.
Steve Kirkham stated on one of his threads that he was trying to test the waters with the Ebay approach. Is he going after a lower price point? I doubt it, an Ebay Roller will be 10k-20k higher than a SPF. Is he trying to clean out the garage? Maybe. Is he trying to find the value difference of three Replica configurations that cost KMS the same to produce(289 FIA/289 FIA, 427 Frame/427)? Maybe. The 427 car went for 30k, the 289 FIA went for 23k, and the 289 Hybrid went for 19K. I think that may be one of the fastest marketing studies in history. I guess I'm SOL at resale time.
If KMS puts a slabside on Ebay, I'll pay 19k for it just to keep it out of the hands of a "backyard builder"

Yours In Cheap Replicas, Jim Finerty