Just a few questions.

[Brent Mills]

Ok, I'm hoping to spend some time with the car this weekend to get it ready for the engine...Just have a few stupid questions. Figured I would ask publicly, as others may eventually have the same questions.


1. I won't be near the car until this weekend, but as i recall, there isn't a fuel pump. Wondering what kind to get and if it is plumbed otherwise? If it's not plumbed, suggestions there would be appreciated, as well, mounting of the pump suggestions.

2. Bleeding the wilwood brakes. Any suggestions for best methods to use?

3. Method for cutting the sidepipe holes? I am guessing that i need to install the engine and headers then use something to extrapolate the length of the tubes down to the fender and then mark/cut. What tool works best? Is there a proper shape? What if I screw it up?

4. Generally, are there other things I need to do?

Thanks for the input.

[Ron61]

Brent,

If you are using an electric fuel pump I think they should be mounted near the tank as they are more pushers than pullers. I have the Holly blue pump and have used it since 1997 with great results. It puts out over 14 pounds of pressure so I had to use a regulator to get the pressure in the 7-10 pound range.
As for the side pipe holes, I mounted the headers after the engine was all bolted down like it was gong to set and then measyred at least 20 times to be sure I wasn't messing up. Then I had a body man who had a tool he uses for cutting fiberglass vut the hole and I gave myself about 1 1/2 inch clerance all around the tubes. I then used heat resistant tape which matches my color and put a thin strip all around the edge of the exhaust holes after the body was painted. I have never had a heat crack or any other problem.
Oh, and I did run my gas lines so that if the drive shaft or a U joint broke, the shaft couldn't flop around and hit them before I could get stopped. Also used a drive shaft loop to help prevent that.

Ron

[Bud Man]

Brent:

You are generally correct on the sequence/procedure on locating and cutting the sidepipe holes. The engine/trans must be installed and the sidepipes installed and correctly torqued on the heads. You need to check to see if the four separate sidepipes stack correctly (squarely and together) at their terminus when the sets are bolted up. If they do not, then you have some adjusting and possibly welding to do to achieve this square "stack".

You are also correct in how the hole itself is spotted. You must project the line of the headers and arrive at the correct point of exit. I used the centerpoint of the four pipe group and a pencil. The pencil is located in the center of the four pipe stack and this centerpoint is located on the inside of the body. Then locate that pencil mark on the outside of the body....this will serve as your initial locating point for the template. Locate your hole template so that the centerpoint mark is in the center. Using a fine point Sharpie, draw your cut line around the edge of the template, step back and judge the work cosmetically. When you are comfortable that it looks right, and double check the correct exit point of the pipes, you are ready to cut.

On these bodies, the best tool to use is an air saw. If you do not have one, they are available at very reasonable prices at Harbor Freight, Northern, etc. Make sure they develop at least 8000 strokes per minute, and use three 18TPI blades per hole. They will cut the aluminum like butter, and handle very easily. I will be happy to fax you the sidepipe templates. They came directly off CSX 3022 (the Kimble Cutaway Car) and will allow about 3/4" of space around your pipes. To my eye, anything larger than that makes the hole look too big.

Email me off line if you are interested in the template, and I will be happy to answer in detail any other qiestion you have regarding your Kirkham.

Bud

[ToyCollector]

Brent, check your trunk area. As a roller, I would think you should have an electric fuel pump and filter located there. If not, that is where it goes.

For side pipe holes (a topic I dreaded, but once I did it, it was not too bad), put motor and headers in the car. The left side is easier than the right if you get the same headers I did as they point straight horizontal to the left fender. the Right side on mine was trickier as the mufflers/collector had a bend that occurs after they hook onto the headers. I mocked up the bend using old paper towel rolls, and also did measurements of the vertical drop per distance. Moral of the story: I cut my first hole on each side small using a air powered body saw (BE VERY CAREFUL--they will jump on you if you make curves too quick ). then trimmed larger and larger, and finally when I was somewhat close put the saw away to avoid any possible boogering of the holes and just used a air powered rotary file to get to final shape. Really tough to booger 'em up this way, just takes a little longer. Make holes big enough to let the weld on tabs clear as well.

No special method on bleeding Wilwoods, just remember there is an outer and inner bleed nipple at the caliper.

[Turk]

Brent,
1-FOR SIDE PIPE HOLES: I was fortunate enough not to roll my own, but I would highly recommend you ask for a template to use, that will at least keep a smooth and symetrical opening on both sides. When I talked to Kris at Shelby he was telling me that they use some sort of a jig to get the job done. I am sure Kirkhams have a similar set up.

2-FUEL PUMP (S): I for one do NOT like the idea of fuel travelling through the electrical pump to get to the mechanical pump. It is restrictive, and if you use that set up mechanical pump is rendered useless. I starve for fuel even at cruise speeds ( also fear lean running conditions when I am not even aware that the car is starving for fuel because it hasn't stalled yet).

I don't like the noise of the electrical pump. What good is mechanical pump if you have to have the electrical pump on all the time?
Better set up is dual pick ups at the tank. One for the electrical pump, and one for the mechanical pump. They arrive at a -T- in the front. The electrical pump pick up is set up so that when you are down to your last 5-6 gallons, mechanical pump can't suck any more fuel, you flip on the electrical pump which has the pickup at a lower point in the tank and that gets you the last 5-6 gallons. It acts as a reserve as well as being able to work simultenoeusly with the mechanical pump under high demand conditions.
I like that set up much better.

TURK
Good luck!

[Brent Mills]

Thanks for the input fellas. Brent will be taking his time cutting the metal. Not really looking forward to it since I'm such a doofus under that sort of pressure. If the hole is a little off, just keep cutting, right?

Turk, an electric and mechanical pump? Huh? Really? Why do I get the feeling you're trying to entertain yourself with this? I'm gullable, so quit it!

[ToyCollector]

Brent, UNFORTUNATELY, as frequently occurs, TURK is right on this one . I will change to this setup after I actually drive my car for a bit. This really is the way to set the car up. BUT, if you want to get going, you can run a plate over where your mechanical fuel pump goes into the block and just go all electric into the carbs.

Feel free to contact me offline for where to get the plate, etc.

[ENTDOC]

Brent,my car came with a Holley pump mounted up near the differential,so you might want to check under there.I plan to go with just the electric pump at first like TC,however Turk's method has a lot of merit and apparently is used often. chuck

[Back in Black]

Brent, did you lose the old cobra and get a kit? If not then why are you just now cutting the sidepipe holes. I always assumed you had sidepipes. By the way I saw you in your cobra last year just before the first rebuild went south.. you were out South Bay drive and I was going the other way in my wife's Saturn. With the quick view I had I still knew it was your car from the short driver's side windshield

[Turk]

Brent,

Hahaha.
You didn't think I had it in me, huh?

TURK

[petek]

Brent,

I've got a great deal for you. I've got a Cobra that has a engine, a fuel pump, and even the side pipe openings already cut. Trade ya, even up. Save yourself all of the trouble.

[Jamo]

Brent

Block off the mechanical like TC suggests. You may find that running electrics only works just fine. I haven't had one problem running with no mechanical, and once the motor starts...you hear very little from the pump at idle, and nothing once underway. Ran my Butler with electrics only as well. If for some reason you want the dual pickup...you can always go back and hook it up.

Sorry, but with approximately 40 freeking gallons of fuel sloshing around back there, I find the concept of having a ''reserve" setup to be somewhat questionable. And when I decide to floor the sumb!tch, I doubt I'll want to have to remember to flip the switch for the electric pumps.

There's also a bit of extra security. With the battery cutoff switch, and unmarked switches on the dash...might cause the bad guy a bit of hesitation in trying to steal it.

Either way...the neat thing is that you get to do it any way you want.

[Brent Mills]

TC, damn...I thought for sure he was busting my chops.

ENTDOC, are you talking about in the trunk or under somewhere? I know it's not in the trunk, but I've seen them mounted there in KMP's. I didn't look hard for it, so I'm just kinda planning my weekend for when I get home.

BiB, new little scooter.

petek, I'm going to stick with what I have for the moment....Weather is too crappy to drive around here anyway.

Jamo, I'm just going with the electric. I had just that in my last car and it worked fine with a good pump....Not to mention if I go with the dual thing then Turk will just remind me how smart he is all the time.

[Turk]

Jamo,
In the dual setup, with mechanical (providing it is not drawing fuel through the electric pump) you don't need to flip the switch for the electrical pump before you floor it. Carter or Holley both could keep up with any flooring I did with 2 fours.

If Brent ends up with a mild motor like mine, you DO hear the electric pump, because where it is mounted and how it resonates because of all the aluminum in the trunk.
To me it is loud enough to be annoying.

I also disagree with 40 gallons being sufficent fuel not to run out!. It is kind a like the old Harley Davidson set up. You run out of fuel and flip the reserve, you are good to go for another 50-60 miles.
Believe me, time to do it is now...not later! 10 feet of fuel line doesn't cost that much!

TURK

[Jamo]

Brent
There is that.

BTW, Tom had mentioned that they were thinking about moving the pump outside of the trunk...I think to one of the wasted spaces behind the rear tires (driver's side I would think). You might want to take a look back there...maybe they made the change.

[Jamo]

Turk

Hey...it's an alternative. Yes...I ran out of gas ONCE the first tankfull (due more to the lack of a gas gauge), but I simply fill it every 100 miles on the odometer, or when I stop on longer drives.

If the Kirkhams did move the electrics to the fender area, it will be quieter.

I do agree that if both types of pumps are used, the dual lines with the "T" is the way to go. I just don't see the need for both. Pros/cons either way...the limited amount of noise is part of the overall symphony...along with the tire whine of the Big Letters, the exhaust, the front fans, the wind noise, etc.

[Ron61]

I have mine mounted up under the trunk on the frame above the tank and sort of in front of the rear axel houseing. Only time I hear it is before I start the engine. Blocked off the mechanical hole in 1997. I also have mine ran through a toggle switch to cut it off and carry a spare just in case. It takes about 3 minutes to replace mine.

Ron

[Side Oil'r 69]

Hi Brent Mills,

Your Holley fuel pump is mounted on the differential bracket on the right side. David K said that they felt it was a safer place to put the pumps because of the fuel vapor in a water tight trunk made them nervous.

Michael

[Jamo]

Great...if I blow up in this beautiful grenade, I'm gonna come back and haunt their Mormon a$$es.

Hmmm...when the wind blows just right, you can hear evil things from haunted Squaw Peak.

[Side Oil'r 69]

Jamo,

I still think that the fuel pump and filter set up looks better in the trunk.

David K said that customers were bringing their cars by the shop and the trunks would be full of clothes and car covers which reaked of fuel vapors. I live in Tejas and it gets ridiculously hot in the summer so they advised me against the cool correct look.

Michael