Kirkham Marketing Question. What do you guys really want?

[bret a ewing]

Originally Posted by bret a ewing

So don't sell anything but rollers, David.

Year later.........same answer.

[Murphy]

David, this is Mike Murphy, (the two 427's). Can't wait to get them. One of the best features of your cars their exclusive nature. Don't know if I would have bought them if you also also offered a "cheap version", doesn't seen to fit with the image you are trying to portray. Just my take. MM

[Slojo]

How about an aluminum 427 S/C Cobra peddal car for the kids?

[bnewell]

I still want the front nose section to hang on my office wall........where are my floor mats????

Thanks,

[ChipBeck]

Originally Posted by Murphy

David, this is Mike Murphy, (the two 427's). Can't wait to get them. One of the best features of your cars their exclusive nature. Don't know if I would have bought them if you also also offered a "cheap version", doesn't seen to fit with the image you are trying to portray. Just my take. MM

Mike,
I think you have it exactly right. Kirkham has spent ten years establishing itself as the Lexus of Cobra builders. When Lexus started up everybody asked why anybody would buy a Lexus when you could buy the "original" Mercedes. Lexus concentrated on building the best luxury cars with outstanding quality, Mercedes quality has fallen off a cliff with Consumer Reports rating them below Kia and Hundai. I quit buying Mercedes years ago and now buy Lexus as I believe them to be better. I think Kirkham has done the same thing to all other Cobra makers including Shelby. When BMW decided to build the Mini they did not want to tarnish the BMW brand by going downmarket, hence the Cooper brand. When Kirkham starts selling kits or plans or boxes of parts for others to build(and screw up) it will immediatly make all Kirkham cars suspect and the brand will lose a lot of it's prestiege. There are many makers fighting for "budget" Cobra sales, Kirkham and Shelby are alone at the top and Shelby can't deliver. Don't go downmarket with the Kirkham name, if you gotta go there, call it something else. Downmarket Lexus cars are called Toyotas and Scions. JMO

Chip

[CSX 4027]

A Kirkham lightweight Jag E type Cobra Killer with 400 hp and 2100 lbs. Best of all, it's a vintage car that can be vintage raced and win.

[ffindling]

Originally Posted by CSX 4027

A Kirkham lightweight Jag E type Cobra Killer with 400 hp and 2100 lbs. Best of all, it's a vintage car that can be vintage raced and win.

I think it depends on the sanctioning body, but I think generally for a car
to acceptable for vintage racing it actually has to have a "vintage" provenance.
So you can build an exact pin for pin replica of an alloy-body E-type and it
won't be acceptable for vintage racing unless you can prove it was built in the
time period when such cars were actually built. Several extremely accurate and
beautifully constructed Aston-Martin DBR1's that are exactly like the one that
Carroll Shelby and Roy Salvadori used to win LeMans in 1959 have been built,
but they are not "vintage" from the standpoint of vintage racing. Same thing
goes for Lotus 49's that have been built in recent years. Despite the fact they
are not elgible for vintage racing events, they are still highly desirable cars
and will give you the feeling that the late Jim Clark must have felt when he
braked into the "Tarzanbocht" at Zandvoort in 1967.

....Fred

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by ffindling

I think it depends on the sanctioning body, but I think generally for a car to acceptable for vintage racing it actually has to have a "vintage" provenance.
So you can build an exact pin for pin replica of an alloy-body E-type and it
won't be acceptable for vintage racing unless you can prove it was built in the time period when such cars were actually built.

I think that that is no longer the case,,,,
The FIA recently created the Historic Technical Passport (HTP) to complement the Historic Certificate, which is only granted to original cars. This means that, for example, an alloy CSX or KMP car, with true-to-design undercarriage and drivetrain, could obtain an HTP and be eligible for Vintage Races.

The HTP is essentially a sporting document. It is intended to ensure that a car complies with the specification of the car it purports to be. Whether that car is wholly original, partly original, assembled wholly or partly out of period components or a copy or replica built recently does not matter.

[CSX 4027]

Fred, I believe the DBR1's were scratch built and were not previously cars. If you take a '66 E-type that was built in 1966, has a serial number and set it up for racing with lightweight bits, I believe HRS and SVRA will run it.
Ron, In the case with the new FIA papers, it's a neat thing to have but, we don't have any FIA races state side so, it can run in Europe. I don't know or believe SVRA or HSR will allow them to run against originals here. I have heard of exceptions made but, usually on the left coast.

[Jamo]

KISS...Lotus 7 reproduction. Caterham's about it right now. Good fun for cruising with weather gear, open track and autocrossing. Easy to find motors and trans combos by the end user. Nice alternative to the present line. I would imagine Gerry would luv 'em as well.

[Allan A]

Steve and Ron,

It is my understanding that the new HTP for the FIA only applies to a car that is made by the original manufacturer (Shelby, Chevron, Lola, etc.), so a KMP would not be eligible in any body form. As for HMSA and others it appears they will allow these cars to compete (all original suspension, body, power train etc.) in the future. A wild ass guess as to the time period, within the next 5 years assuming many other caveats.

Allan

[computerworks]

Max Mosley, Prez of FIA said this:

The HTP certifies that a vehicle conforms in every respect to the original specification of that vehicle. The vehicle might not, however, be an authentic and original vehicle. The HC, on the other hand, certifies that a vehicle is original and authentic, even if it does not conform to its original specification in every detail. Of course an original car which still conforms to its original specification could hold both an HTP and an HC. An original racing car which has been modified might hold an HC (with an endorsement), but would not be eligible for an HTP. Conversely, a car which conforms in every respect to the specification of an original vehicle can hold an HTP even if it is a recently-built copy, but can never hold the HC which is reserved for the original vehicle.

So, it does look like replicas, even scratch-built, can claim the HTP...which is cool.

[bbrown]

Allan,

The HTP is very specific in that it allows cars of any origin, as long as they comply with the specifications of the original car. The HTP is not concerned with provenance. They don't care who built it, that's what the Heritage Certificate is for.

Please refer to the FIA webpage. They have a very good reference and a series of Questions and Answers that address these issues.

Regards

[1985 CCX]

A Kirkham of course......................Cobra that is, slabside front and FIA rear similar to early race cars. CSX2259 Perfect!

Aluminum Jag XK or Austin bugeye would also be a great choice. Classics that always draw a crowd.

Back to original question 1, 2, or 3 would be great depending on lifes cash return. I thought the body/frame already was an option?

Someday a KMS owner,
Jeff

[Allan A]

I might have my wires crossed as you compare the FIA rules and vintage group goals. The discussions I have had relate to the vintage groups, they realize that many of the original cars are going into museums etc. Once again this is my understanding, they would (years from now) start to allow cars with the correct heritage and replicate the exact build. The reason they can request heritage is so many of the famous cars are being built by the original manufacturers. Ferrari for example has recently added a new building to fix/certify their old models with rumors of some new units for race only. Why would you accept a garage build (allowable under the rules you provided) when you can get a number of cars with heritage. Who knows, it is all a buddy system anyways.

[csx700?]

david
how about a aluminum porsche 356 speedster or 550 spyder? i can provide a speedster if your interested??

[CSX 4027]

a smashing choice whilst pondering,,

[maverick]

Since we are throwing around ideas beyond the cobra realm, didn't you guys fab a willys (body?) a while back?

Now THAT was spectacular!

............mmm is that thing still around?

[David Kirkham]

CSX700?,

YOU SHOULD HAVE CALLED ME ON THAT ONE! We are always looking for new projects. That sounds interesting.

David

[ffindling]

An aluminum E-type lightweight is pretty appealing, but so is the alloy
550 spyder as well.


....Fred