Stainless Steel Frame Question

[rsimoes]

From my understanding of materials, etc it seems you can just change the frame metal from one type of metal to the other without making other changes to accomodate the new metal:

Examples where the new material has to be worked with differently or things won't work right

stainless steel brake lines vs steel
aluminum frame vs steel (C6 Z06)
titanium exhaust (2001-2004 C5 Z06)

So my question is what was needed to be changed for the stainless steel frame for the Kirkham cars?

What are the differences of the stainless vs the steel (other than the no rust factor)
What's the weight difference?
Is the SS more rigid? If so, more prone to cracking instead of flexing?

I am not trying to make it look bad, I just want to underdtand it better.

Thanks.

[MJN]

There is a huge difference in the strengths of various steels but less spread in the stiffness. I have no idea what steels Kirkham uses for the regular chassis or the stainless chassis I could not find it on their website. Here is a good link to MIL HDBK 5, which is an Aerospace materials design document. If you look in chapter 2 you will find the properties of virtually all high grade steel and CRES (corrosion resisting steels).

http://www.grantadesign.com/cgi-bin/...IL5-H.xml&br=3

[weekendwarrior]

rsimoes,

Concerning the uses for the car that you have already stated, you will never begin to stress the frame any where never its potential, steel or stainless.

My KMP has a 304 stainless frame and I believe David K. said it is 100 lbs less than the steel frame, but call David and confirm. I am sure you know that the current steel frames have a thicker wall thickness than the original CSX3000 cars. All the frames have the same external dimensions as the original cars, want to know more dial up Kirkham.

The last Kirkham Summit had an in depth talk on Steel Suspension vs Aluminum and the metallurgy between the two as well as the weight savings. Also less unsprung weight.

If you are wanting a pure race car talk to Morris (KMP 259) he has a SS frame, 750hp race motor and an all aluminum suspension except steel lower front A arms, Morris is looking for 180mph in the car, Ask David K. about the car. Morris is a retired Professional Racer and his skills match the potential of the car. So if a Professional is willing to risk his pink body with a stainless frame rest assured it has been engineered properly. His brakes also are not stock issue.

Your questions need to be posed to Kirkham they are the experts on the engineering of their car or are you from the Corvette Club baiting us?

[rsimoes]

That's for the answers. It's good to know. I am not questioning that Kirkham did their homework, I'm sure they have. I am just curious about these details.

Thanks!

Follow up question.

Are they any drawbacks to the stainless steel frame, other than cost?

[weekendwarrior]

Originally posted by rsimoes


That's for the answers. It's good to know. I am not questioning that Kirkham did their homework, I'm sure they have. I am just curious about these details.

Thanks!

Follow up question.

Are they any drawbacks to the stainless steel frame, other than cost?

That is BB vs SB each has his own opinion. Some prefer the flex rates of steel over stainless, did not affect Morris in his decision for a race car. Again for the average Joe, it is personal preference, you will always find someone to argue, My Dog is better than your Dog"

I like the stainless and since mine is not patterned after the CSX3000, I don't care. My fuel/oil hoses are modern HS-79, fittings super nickel aluminum etc. As many modern advances I can put on the car and still keep the flavor of the CSX3000, in my opinion only.

[Power Surge]

David told us at the last summit, the stainless frame is simply for the no rust factor and the "wow" factor. It has no advantage/disadvantage other than that over the standard steel frame.

[John A. Simpson]

Sal, I can back you up on that, I was standing about four feet from David when he said it, but it is cool.

[Morris]

It very difficult to drill a hole in......

[Tom Wells]

Here's the new version of the E-M chassis, about a third of the way down the page:

E-M photo page

It's all SS (no pun intended, honest )

[elgecko]

Morris
Use Cobalt drill bits, makes it a little easier. I know, I'm working on a Stainless Steel frame and a center punch and those bits sure help.
Dave

[weekendwarrior]

[quote]Originally posted by Morris


It very difficult to drill a hole in...... [/QUOTE

Hi Morris,

Thanks for giving us a primer on how to do it properly, hope I did not speak for you, just trying to give rsimoes an illustration. I try to be objective with this stuff and not fall into the trap of one is better than the other, its preference as far as I am concerned.

Gary

[Rick162]

100 lbs that s a big deal....is that correct?

[David Kirkham]

The weight difference between a stainless and a steel car is now only about 15 pounds. Because of supply issues, we now use thicker stainless tubes (other than the main rails) in most of the other tubes in the car. The first stainless chassis were really light. Now, they are quite similar. We helped to make up for that with the new aluminum hood, trunk, and door frames. That saves about 20 pounds right now over the steel and stainless counterparts.

We use 304L stainless on our stainless chassis cars. The real difference is the stainless is really cool and the steel is much less expensive. Strengths are quite similar and stiffness is quite similar. Stainless just looks cooler. My new car is a stainless steel chassis car.

David

[Morris]

Hi Gary......

The Stainless frame is nice because of the "no rust factor".....

And we'll be doing some interesting things to stiffen up the chassis..... I'm sure when we get done it should work just fine....

The design of the chassis is not the best and flexes to much in the torsional way...... the longitudal or long way seems to be OK..... so we are going to spend some time preventing the twist....and making the whole chassis much stronger....

Morris

[David Kirkham]

I can't wait to see these new chassis mods!!!

BUT!

DANG YOU MORRIS!!!

I stayed up all night last night when my brother emailed me the pictures of your new clutch set up! I drooled on my computer so much I thought I was going to short it out.

As I was telling you today...I am having a fantasy right now about making a custom, super light weight, billet bellhousing with a reverse starter in it on a tiny custom flywheel with that 3 disk clutch pack in it. I LOVE a fast reving motor! Now if I could only figure out how to get the fantasy out of my head on into the CNC mill!

David

[ToyCollector]

Nice of Tom to mail the pics. Where did they originate from on the internet?

[Morris]

TC

They are the photo's I did of the trick clutch we are using in KMP 259......

Morris

[David Kirkham]

Morris,

I have been thinking about that small diameter flywheel a lot lately. I ordered a complete set up like yours a couple of days ago and it should arrive shortly. I will keep you updated on my progress and experiment when it arrives.

David

[rsimoes]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Strengths are quite similar and stiffness is quite similar.

Can you feel the difference in the chassis when you drive them both back to back? (assuming both cars are close in suspension settings, etc)

[David Kirkham]

No,

I am not that good of a driver! Maybe Morris, or Mario Andretti could tell.

David