What's up with all the 289 activity lately?

[Lew Ledyard]

Originally posted by Turk


You make a hell of a car.

TURK

Oh my God, did Turk just compliment David K?

[What'saCobra?]

Cut them a little slack, will ya'. So, he shouldn't have gloated about their new designs quite so much. Pretty mild compared to CS for the last almost 40 years.

Any bright bulb knows that various materials strengths can be uniquely utilized with appropriate designs. It isn't like they switch back and forth from noodles to potatos and back just to confuse us.

Steel vs Alloy vs forged alloy vs billet vs forged steel vs paneled steel weldments all have advantages and disadvantages, depending on the design and materials particulars.

Viz: Early GT40's were steel, then alloy panels; all shaped differently.

More precisely:

(purpose)(weight)(strength)(materials)(Cost)
(fabrication limits)(service life)(style) = f(design)

Gloating, even with some humorous intent, certainly doesn't help reduce the ever-present buyer's remorse, of course.

But, then again, it is also hard to decide when to buy the 'latest' computer without feeling 'screwed' in about 6 weeks (or the next monday) after the much better design or price become available.

[David Kirkham]

Turk,

It was indeed an engineer from HST who told us about reverse engineering our suspensions. I saw his FEA (Finite Element Analysis) drawings, stress tests, Young's Modulus calculations, etc. all in a thick binder I held in my hands. Not only did they want to copy a "few billet pieces" as you say, but they copied the ENTIRE suspension.

You are correct, they were looking for a less expensive suspension. I think you are mistaken that the did not think it was a good design. If that is so, then why did they want to purchase complete suspensions from us and ask for quotes and time frames of deliveries from us? I do not believe they were trying to purchase "cheap" suspensions that are "not a very good design" to sell to their customers.

I believe the federal courts have quite bluntly ruled the Cobra is in the public domain and free for anyone to copy--we did nothing wrong there. Frankly, I was flattered they wanted to copy our suspension and had gone to all of the effort they did to do all of the engineering work to reverse engineer what we had done. It must have been worth something because they certainly invested an enormous amount of resources into copying it.

At the time you purchased your car from us, the suspension you received was, as you say, "the cat's meow." I never mentioned or intimated those parts were "laughable" as you say. When we sold you your car, it was an expensive upgrade that was not in full production. The parts were made one off and there was a lot of research going into the parts. Remember, we sold you your car quite some time ago and times, regardless of what we may all desire, change.

We found a better way to make our cars with the aluminum suspensions. Hopefully companies get smarter and we think we did by switching completely over to the aluminum suspensions. You have to get smarter, or you will die while others pass you by.

Yes, we have gone through many generations of suspension designs--much like computers. People buy computers every day knowing they will become obsolete within a few months, if not weeks. People buy Ford trucks every day knowing a bigger and better one will be out in less than a year. Our suspensions are constantly being upgraded and improved. I think any reasonable, successful company does the same thing. It is true, the suspension a customer purchases from us today will not be the same suspension we are making tomorrow. I freely admit it and I am, frankly, quite proud of it. Many of our improvements come directly from our customers, (like Morris--THANK YOU MORRIS!), who show us where we can improve--and we listen to their concerns and ideas and implement them as rapidly as we can. We want to make the best product we can. Incidentally, cost too, is an improvement when you pass it on to your customers.

I too think we make "a hell of a car." Thank you for your kind words,

David

[Cal Metal]

Turk:

They are simply trying to improve the breed......it is what any quality manufacturer would do.

[ToyCollector]

Originally posted by Cal Metal


Turk:

They are simply trying to improve the breed......it is what any quality manufacturer would do.

Let's see. KMP forum, check.

I have written a check to KMS, check. Have you Cal?

David, what happened to the original vision of being a true to original replica maker? How will you support all these versions of your cars?

What is KMS's mission statement nowadays?

[Lew Ledyard]

TC:

What is your point? Are you saying that Cal's statement is less valid because he has not written a check to KMS? I think that makes his point more valid. Regarding duplicating the original, it's my understanding that you can order a KMP any way you want - as probably the closest to original that you can buy, or one that employs some more recently designed parts. Why is KMP's mission statement even a concern? Someone can order whatever they want - original or not.

[Turk]

Cal,
Quality companies indeed do just that. So do quality people! They improve themselves.

You have no way of knowing what was said above that is truthful, and what is not. I DO!! If

I told you my car did NOT come with the highly acclaimed billet Kirkham pieces that David eludes to, would it help explain the lengths David would go to avoid telling the truth?

He forgot!! How do you forget if the car you built and sold , one that is been sitting in your shop for better than a year, one that you have advertised on the E-Bay in great detail has or doesn't have the much improved billet suspension or not?

It went down hill fm there. Let's say, David likes to take extensive liberties with the truth..

[Turk]

I have no problem hearing contradictory opinions from those who have had wonderful experiences with David. Who am I to tell them their dealings have been nothing but perfect?

Then again, unless you have owned one of their cars and had to deal with him, and did not go through what I did, DON'T tell me, what it is like to deal with them..
Yes , writing a check does give some a little more voice. They are called CUSTOMERS. Not cheering section.

You have paid the your dues, and you can definetely tell the rest of us, how wonderful life is. Is it OK if I said the opposite?


I WAS giving the car a compliment. Not David!

[ToyCollector]

Lew,

What is standard issue nowadays? According to David's words they are no longer anywhere near close to original. The whole car will be aluminum before long including .... I think we need to relook at the roots of what makes a Kirkham a Kirkham. If this is now 49 flavors of KMP, well, I guess I would like to know. Seems things were better when it was one flavor, trying to be original. At the end of the day, I don't give a flip. I have been trying for a true to original car. Yes, I understand that ordering flexibility is highly variable. So is everything else. Do you want to continue?

[Lew Ledyard]

I wrote a check and am a happy customer. I am sorry that some people are not.

I was trying to add a little levity with the complimenting David K comment. These things are frigging toys. We are lucky as hell to be able to blow this kind of dough on something that is absolutely unnecessary. I wish that folks would lighten up and count their blessings.

[Lew Ledyard]

Originally posted by ToyCollector


Lew,

What is standard issue nowadays? According to David's words they are no longer anywhere near close to original. The whole car will be aluminum before long including .... I think we need to relook at the roots of what makes a Kirkham a Kirkham. If this is now 49 flavors of KMP, well, I guess I would like to know. Seems things were better when it was one flavor, trying to be original. At the end of the day, I don't give a flip. I have been trying for a true to original car. Yes, I understand that ordering flexibility is highly variable. So is everything else. Do you want to continue?

Whatever. I am going to bed. I am sorry if I wasted anyone's time.

[ToyCollector]

Lew,

Yes you are right. We are all blessed to have these problems.

With utmost respect,

-Mike, biting my tongue in your honor.

[Lew Ledyard]

Well thank you kindly, I will now surely trapse off to La La land and have pleasant dreams.

[David Kirkham]

TC,

You asked, "David, what happened to the original vision of being a true to original replica maker?" That is a great question. We still make the original type suspensions for those who want them--although that is quite rare today.

You also asked, "What is KMS's mission statement nowadays?" I have thought a lot about that. For now, I am reminded of a saying I first heard as a kid. I don't know who first said it, but it sums up how I feel pretty accurately.

"Fear is the thief of dreams."

David

[Michael4yah]

Small block cobra's like the red one pictured remind me too much of an MG or an Austin Healy. There never was a dual carb 427 that had only 425 hp, Try closer to 450-470, All the Mfgs derated those engines to keep the stockholders and insurance companies happy. I bought my 1st 427/"425" in 1968. It had close to 460 ponies bone stock. Same thing with my 396/375 Nova that had over 420hp stock. As far as HP is concerned the FE motors have changed some over the years and HP increase is definately there but with the limitation of head design etc the new big boy is definately the 460. My engine builder has a 9 second stroked 460 Galaxie that he built 8 years ago. He's spent his fair share of time on the track and plenty of cruises and has only recently rebuilt it. Thats 8 years of racing @ 9 seconds and cruising on one motor. You can say what you want about small block cobra's and Viva Le Differance!! But It comes down to whether you want a citified car that works as an everyday driver or you want to get into something on the weekends that few people on earth are ever able to experience. The choice is yours, you pays your money and takes your choice.

[David Kirkham]

Michael4ya,

I do agree.

There is now a choice for people. I am just surprised and how nice the small block choice is. Having said, that, I am within minutes of ordering a stroked 427 for my next project! Some people just never learn!

David

[clayfoushee]

This is pretty heavy stuff here. But let me get this straight.........the new KMP mission statement is, "fear is the thief of dreams"?

[David Kirkham]

Keith Craft just called,

My small block dyno'd at 456 HP. It should really be a lot of fun. I am trying for a sub 2000 pound car. I will keep you updated.

David

[Cobra Pack]

Hey David,

Is the motor going into an FIA Hybrid? What major components are you using? We are still getting all of the parts together, but Jim Cowles is going to build me a 331 stroker with flow ported Edelbrock aluminum heads (painted black of course so you can't tell they are aluminum), alloy flywheel, alloy romac balancer (painted black to look similar to an original hipo balancer). We are guessing it will produce about 450 hp.

We will weigh the car when it is done.

Mike

[David Kirkham]

Mike,

I wish I could put it in a Hybrid. I don't have an extra one around or I would!

Aluminum Edelbrock heads, aluminum flywheel, water pump, pulley, brackets, aluminum billet everything I can think of, etc. It is a 331 inch motor as well.

The real trick is going to be to see if I can put in a really, small clutch and flywheel combination like Morris is using. I am having fantasies about billeting out a tiny, lightweight, bellhousing and putting in a reverse starter from the back on a small flywheel custom billet flywheel. I just love it when a motor revs really, really fast. It makes down shifting so much faster. Been thinking alot about that lately. It seems that is really the next place A LOT of weight can be removed from the car. Good place to remove it as well. I am hoping for 30-40 pounds of weight removal. (Bell housing, flywheel, clutch assembly)

I am after that ever elusive sub 2000 pound mark.

David