Near Disaster

Murphy · #1 (**permalink**) 06-19-2008, 07:11 PM

Just took a spin and felt the car handling strange. Rear left wheel almost came off. I have the newer pin retainer on my hub, spinner was about three threads from off, and yes it passed the retainer???

ZOERA-SC7XX · #2 (**permalink**) 06-19-2008, 07:46 PM

You gotta safety-wire those things. Right hand thread on the drivers side, left hand thread on the passenger side.

David Kirkham · #3 (**permalink**) 06-19-2008, 09:14 PM

Murphy,

I wonder if the button got stuck somehow for a moment in the down position from dirt, grime??? I can't see how the knock off could go past that button. The design is straight from F1 and it is now the only type locking device they allow.

Maybe a burr? Weak spring?

I certainly want to get to the bottom of this one...fast!

David

Murphy · #4 (**permalink**) 06-20-2008, 06:43 AM

I took the wheel off and inspected all parts. Nothing damaged? I was on the interstate and the car was all over the place.

The button moves freely. The spinner went past the button for sure. I was but two miles from my house when I first pulled over to look, so I tightened the spinner by hand enough to get it past the button and had to pull over again to retighten by hand as it had gone past the button again. I wonder if I used too much anti sieze?

big-boss · #5 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 09:48 AM

I just put two thousand miles and one track day on may car with the buttons. I would bet it wasn't tight and on when you started. I recomend not mind ####ing it to death- put it on right and get back in the race. Good luck.

JBo · #6 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 11:44 AM

safety wire as a failsafe?

ENTDOC · #7 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 11:44 AM

but isn't that the whole idea of the buttons, to keep the wheel from coming off if it was not tight? If just tightening the spinner is the cure why have a backup safety system?

Ronbo · #8 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 12:35 PM

I guess my question would be does the button move too freely? (compare the tension to one of the others)

Also what does the leading edge of the spinner look like? (too beveled)

If you can post a pic of that lock it would help...

Here's one of mine to compare:

rsb427 · #9 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 03:12 PM

beat it good with lead hammer dont be afraid and safety wire 2000 miles on mine no problem!

CHANMADD · #10 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 03:30 PM

Just looking at the design of that "button" it kind of looks foolproof to me.How can it possibly go past without the button being pushed in by something ,or it was'nt on right in the first place?

Murphy · #11 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 10:09 AM

I took off all of my wheels and inspected them. All of the spring loaded pins function the same and appear undamaged.

The only odd thing was the spinner on the wheel that came lose had a spot about 1/2" long where it was clear that it was rubbing on the pin. There was a slight burr in the thread of the spinner where it appeared the pin crossed into the threads. How the pin compressed and crossed into the spinner threads is a mystery. It did occur while driving on the interstate.

You get plenty of warning as the car was all over the place and I knew there was a problem.

Ronbo, my wheel looks just like yours except I don't have the Kirkham spinner.

David Kirkham · #12 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 10:24 AM

Murphy,

If you think the knock off is any sort of a problem, I will send you out a new set of our billet knock offs today (burr, too big of bevel, whatever). Just let me know. Let's get to the bottom of this.

David

emberglo66 · #13 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 11:31 AM

David, Nice service!!! I am lucky to have the same attention to service here in Houston with my Superformance shop. Your 289 FIA car is one of my wish list cars.

Murphy · #14 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 05:49 PM

[/IMG]

OK, here is a pic. Looks like possibly the casting that is the spinner has enough of a raised radius to force the push pin in as it rotates? It appears the pin jumped the threads at the highest section of the spinner??? OK NASA guys tell me what really happened..

David Kirkham · #15 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 05:57 PM

I don't know what happened, but I have a new set of knock offs here if you think that will solve your problem!

David

cdnus · #16 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 06:35 PM

Murphy,
this may sound stupid--- but why don't you take your hammer & try knocking the spinner off ? ( opposite rotation to on )
Maybe the extra pressure will reproduce what is happening when you are driving & force the pin in. Wiggling the wheel around at the same time may help also.
Can't hurt.
The spinner probably wasn't tight to start with, initiating the problem, but it sure would be nice to discover why the safety did not hold.

big-boss · #17 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 07:42 PM

i AM SURE OTHRES HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE WITH KNOCK-OFF:
i HAVE ONLY HAD THREE CARS WITH THEM VARING HP CARS AND I AM A "DRIVER":
If the nuts are tight and the threads are good they do not back off so the little lock thing is not the issue, that simple. If the left and right hand threads are not on the appropriate side- they will come off eventually- saftey wire will not keep a nut that wants to come off from comming off, again that simple. If the nut was backing off against the littel spring thing- you would see damage to the spring thing for sure.
I still think they were not on right in the first place but you should check:
a. Make sure they are on right sides, duh!
b. Make sure threads are not gone- put a stright edge on the hub threads the tops should all be the samjust like a 18-Wheeler axel check. ( my autokraft had this issue-try fixing that ten years ago)
c. Make sure the wheel back flange fits square against the hub.
d. Try to over tighten the spinner- If it were split it will open up- again just like an 18-Wheeler axel nut or any other for that matter.

Good luck- don't let it scare you even if the wheel comes off the most you would end up with is fame on "Youtube" and some expensive bodywork.

If all is right I would swap front to back and go for a spin.

csx700? · #18 (**permalink**) 06-23-2008, 08:28 PM

****************

Murphy · #19 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 07:10 AM

I agree that it must have been loose to begin with as I only traveled 10-12 miles. The last time the wheels were off was 500 miles ago. I put them on myself and I am positive they were tight and fully engaged. To answer other concerns, yes the hubs are on the correct side of the car and there is no damage or misfit of the wheels or hubs? I am 100% confident that there is no assembly issue or damaged parts as I bought the car as a roller. I still fall back to the thought the geometry of the spinner as it backs off will force the safety pin inward.

Concern remains that the spinner passed the safety pin.

Good news is my wife now refuses to get in the car or allow the kids to go with me....She was with me when the problem occured.

I will call you David.

Ronbo · #20 (**permalink**) 06-24-2008, 11:15 PM

From your photo I'm guessing I'm seeing the thread ridge which doesn't seem high enough to push the pin down.

But another thought comes to mind.. Does the pin have a nice sharp 90deg back to top angle? (check to see if it's rounded over)

The grooves mentioned seem like a good idea, even better would be a knife edge at the top on the button that would "cut in" to the spinner face on contact and thus lock the button in place. Or possibly a groove in the back of the button with a raised lip on the spinner face.

Or of course say the heck with it and get the safety wire out...

Definately take up David on the billet spinners, they're really nice pieces.