Afghanistan, more troops?

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

Well, you tried to instruct me on computer networking and security once - so fair is fair...

* * *

Steve

Well...damn it all to hell, you're right.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I like Obama myself and think he's doing a fine job!
I have seen nothing to suggest his counsel on the war effort is anything less than the best the country has to offer! I like his considered and thoughtful approach when it comes to making an important decision like: Send in 40,000 troops or not? Send in more? Less? Let's not jump to any conclusions here I say! BUT people are dieing while he waits!!! Yeah, thats a drag, MORE people will die if he jumps to the wrong conclusion, it is "war" after all.

You could say that stems from a "herd mentality", maybe a circle jerk, Kool Aid drinkers, what ever the current negative label is the "herd" is using today to describe these so called "liberals".

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

You overestimate me...I can be as cheap and dirty as anyone here. Refences back to Bush in this thread are assinine (my intent in being so cheap)...Obama owns the war now.

Actually, Jamo, WE own the war - both of them - always have and always will.

I bring up Bush because as far as I am concerned he and the people who voted for him had their chance and screwed the pooch. They have no business telling anybody else how to get the job done unless and until the GOP gets their heads out of their collective asses. If you can convince Bush to run again I'll vote for him - pair him up with a young guy who is a real (Where's Evan when I need him!) conservative rather than one of these neo types, and you might actually have something. Throw in Scowcroft and I'll even place a few votes for GOPers running for Congress.

And what are 'refences back to Bush'? Something he's now busy putting up around his ranch, or are you just trying to infiltrate the libs?

Steve

[VRM]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

That is so cool! I never knew a sarlacc ended up here!

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Jamo

fsstnotch

Since you're the only one not opining from an armchair...everything seems to indicate that we're dealing with some of the geo-political issues we had in Vietnam, i.e., cross-border issues. As with Laos and Vietnam, the rascals we're trying to nail down jump back and forth across the tribal regions, which owe little alligence to state borders, making it all but impossible to trap them. Then I read that folks kicked out of the Pakistani regions come into Afghanistan ready to fight everybody.

And then we find out today that the Pakistan military got only a fraction of the money we sent them for fighting the basturds.

This is a bit different scenario than Iraq...a state military and nobody jumping across into Iran or Turkey (except for Kurds with their own agenda), and few able to make it to Syria undetected.

Seems also that we're fighting several groups of folks with varying agendas...the Taliban are trying to retake the country, Osama's folks are trying to carry on to regroup and attack targets outside of the region, and the varyious tribes are all fighting to maintain their own fiefdoms. In essence...one approach doesn't seem to fit all.

On top of all that...we have to play politics within NATO and two separate states.

FUBAR?

jamo,

ACTUALLY, you'd be surprised. there was/is ALOT of border crossing in Iraq also. 90% of the people fighting in both countries don't even belong to either. the difference in Iraq is that they were already prepared to rebuild their Military and Police and we spent ALOT of time training them. In Afghanistan, the Taliban still owns so many people that corruption is still a serious problem.

Pakistan.... oh Pakistan..... it's funny becuase we seen 1000's killed here, 1000's killed there when they first started. But those numbers were surely inflated. Then they would call for our support but if a single civilian was killed at the coordinates they requested... it's the US fault.

AfghanisNam is never ending IMO. They will always be fighting in this region as they always have. I think our GOAL/MISSION should be to train local military/Police to be able to defend themselves. Right now, that's an impossible mission. Between the lack of manning keeping us from being the aggressor and to setup QUALITY training facilities, and the MASSIVE corruption issues.... it's Lose, lose.

OH, I'd also like to say.... I think this stuff should be kept under lock and key. They should NOT be releasing to the press IF and WHEN or HOW MANY troops are sent. This causes more problems for us over here. The media needs to be removed from the decisions of the country, yet they seem to have more say than anyone! All they have to do is report half truths, this sways the public opinion and thus forcing unthought out decisions.

[Excaliber]

I've heard some estimates that up to 400,000 troops will be needed to stabilize the country. Obviously we can't do that, they would have to come from the Afghan's.

40,000 American troops is starting to sound like a drop in the bucket.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

jamo,

ACTUALLY, you'd be surprised. there was/is ALOT of border crossing in Iraq also. 90% of the people fighting in both countries don't even belong to either. the difference in Iraq is that they were already prepared to rebuild their Military and Police and we spent ALOT of time training them. In Afghanistan, the Taliban still owns so many people that corruption is still a serious problem.

Pakistan.... oh Pakistan..... it's funny becuase we seen 1000's killed here, 1000's killed there when they first started. But those numbers were surely inflated. Then they would call for our support but if a single civilian was killed at the coordinates they requested... it's the US fault.

AfghanisNam is never ending IMO. They will always be fighting in this region as they always have. I think our GOAL/MISSION should be to train local military/Police to be able to defend themselves. Right now, that's an impossible mission. Between the lack of manning keeping us from being the aggressor and to setup QUALITY training facilities, and the MASSIVE corruption issues.... it's Lose, lose.

OH, I'd also like to say.... I think this stuff should be kept under lock and key. They should NOT be releasing to the press IF and WHEN or HOW MANY troops are sent. This causes more problems for us over here. The media needs to be removed from the decisions of the country, yet they seem to have more say than anyone! All they have to do is report half truths, this sways the public opinion and thus forcing unthought out decisions.

Thanks...it's good to hear real facts every now and then.

As for the press, the Brits seem to be able to rely on their media to keep their mouths shut on sensitive info better than anyone...a good balance. I wished our own press would understand their responsibility.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

* * *

And what are 'refences back to Bush'? Something he's now busy putting up around his ranch, or are you just trying to infiltrate the libs?

Steve

Shhhhhhh....I'm huntin wabbits.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I like Obama myself and think he's doing a fine job! Doesn't mean I agree with all his policy decisions, that never happens with ANY president EVER for all the people all the time.

It has been suggested he is not getting the best recommendations from the best people, I disagree. For the most part, their just people some folks don't like. And then we wonder is he LISTENING to these recommendations? I have seen nothing to suggest his counsel on the war effort is anything less than the best the country has to offer! If he doesn't make a decision in 48 hours he is considered "wavering" and "undecisive". Gimme a break! The voices on what to do are many, the suggestions quite varied. PLEASE, take your time all ready! I like his considered and thoughtful approach when it comes to making an important decision like: Send in 40,000 troops or not? Send in more? Less? Let's not jump to any conclusions here I say! BUT people are dieing while he waits!!! Yeah, thats a drag, MORE people will die if he jumps to the wrong conclusion, it is "war" after all.

The "faults" of Obama, so often cited on THIS web site, ad nauseum, are largely without merit. In short, 90% of what you see here is BS spin, period! Those that dare to offer ANY kind of support for this or that Obama decision or policy are quickly ridiculed and labeled "Liberal". You could say that stems from a "herd mentality", maybe a circle jerk, Kool Aid drinkers, what ever the current negative label is the "herd" is using today to describe these so called "liberals". MABYE, they are the REAL independants amongst a bunch of replica independants!

I must say though:
THIS thread has been an exception. There has been some good dialog and not a lot of inflaming posts (until this one).

You have a bright future as a wacky, out-of-touch with reality, stand up comedian.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Dan40

You have a bright future as a wacky, out-of-touch with reality, stand up comedian.

Hey, this thread is doing fine without personal attacks.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Thanks...it's good to hear real facts every now and then.

As for the press, the Brits seem to be able to rely on their media to keep their mouths shut on sensitive info better than anyone...a good balance. I wished our own press would understand their responsibility.

Yep. MacChrystals report deals with almost all of what Fsstnotch talks about. I have a couple of friends/co-workers over there also, and my cousin just got back after a couple of years. They all say pretty much the same thing. MacChrystal outlines this stuff, and then offers possible solutions at a generalised level. The report is definitely worth the read.

It does not really discuss the need for secrecy, but I agree with you on this one. All the news should get to run is 'Obama has directed that the number of boots on the ground will be increased.'. I personally want to know operational details, but then so do the bad guys.

Steve

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Dan40

You have a bright future as a wacky, out-of-touch with reality, stand up comedian.

Uh, Dan.... try and have a civil dialog without insults....it just flows so much better.

thanks.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by computerworks

Uh, Dan.... try and have a civil dialog without insults....it just flows so much better.

thanks.

I map out a lucrative career for the guy.
I give him a BRILLIANT [IMHO] plan to cover the mythical uncovered.
I tell him its raining while beer halls are emptying out and lining up to get at his back.
And I'm WRONGFULLY accused of attacking him!
Oh the humanity!!

[Jamo]

Damn Ernie...you owe this guy a beer!

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Dan40

I map out a lucrative career for the guy.
I give him a BRILLIANT [IMHO] plan to cover the mythical uncovered.
I tell him its raining while beer halls are emptying out and lining up to get at his back.
And I'm WRONGFULLY accused of attacking him!
Oh the humanity!!

Damn...after a second look...you're right.

Carry on.

[Excaliber]

Yeah, I got a beer for him, it's "raining" you know...

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Yeah, I got a beer for him, it's "raining" you know...

No 'used' beers need apply!

[Excaliber]

Interesting developements in the "war room" council as the debate continues. Some are saying the Taliban poses no direct threat to National Security and has no direct ties to Al Queda. Therefore, focus on Al Queda with surgical strikes, drones, less emphasis on direct action against the Taliban. Hmmm,,,

The very question I posed some posts back. How closely allied are the Taliban and Al Queda? Difficult question because I think it depends on "time". Not that close NOW, but in time they could get a lot more chummy.

Perhaps Pakistan is where the real threat lays and where our focus should be?

Man is this thing screwed up or what!

[Jamo]

Well...Pakistan already has the bomb.

Taliban is a different creature than al-Queda...like diarrhea and constipation. They both gotta go.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Well...Pakistan already has the bomb.

Taliban is a different creature than al-Queda...like diarrhea and constipation. They both gotta go.

Maybe we could pour a metaphorical 'Pepto' on the whole region?!