Muslims in the US Armed Forces

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by SPF2245

but in some cases...how can you translate or interogate subjects without someone who understand the language, history or common background needed to build rapport?!

With a Rosetta Stone CD, a "Frommer's Guide to Culture and Travel in Iran" and a Colt .45.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Just my opinion....but the quality of 18 year-olds being produced by this country today pales miserably in comparison to 1945-1960.

Mmmm. Maybe.

The majority of young men were strong, motivated, ethical, hard-working, patriotic God-fearing heterosexuals.

Well, that's what all the movies show. Their moms vacuumed the house wearing pearls, too.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I wasn't playing on words. If you reread the posts, it's not entirely clear what you were disagreeing with. I restated one possibility; you were free to - and did - clarify.

* * *

My clarification preceeded your remarks.

In any event, I accept your profound and most humble apology.

[Scott S]

First things first, you all have to brush up on history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

"'It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.'

For many of the jihadis's the war never ended.

We have fought many wars against nations of similar religions, have we the courage Jefferson and Adams had two centuries ago?

So far I think not...

Scott S

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Just my opinion....but the quality of 18 year-olds being produced by this country today pales miserably in comparison to 1945-1960. The majority of young men were strong, motivated, ethical, hard-working, patriotic God-fearing heterosexuals. Such is not the case today in our "All volunteer" military.

From what I have seen the past few years that is a pretty accurate assessment of what is happening. Can't fail a student for not passing a grade, can't even make them attend classes in this district as it is a violation of their rights. I really don't think that any person looking at the high school grads today could honestly say they are as well educated and intelligent as the ones from years back who worked hard to get an education while now they have the idea they should just sit back and have everything given to them.

Sorry Buzz, not trying to hijack your thread .

Ron

[392cobra]

I knew that there had to be a reason other than him just being a Radical Jihadist for his terror....

On Monday, Chicago Mayor Daley blamed the Ft. Hood Jihad Massacre on America’s love of guns!

“Unfortunately, America loves Guns. We love guns to a point where that uh we see devastation on a daily basis. You don’t blame a group.”


"Islamists murdering people while shouting Allah Akbar? That’s because of guns, not the Jihad being perpetrated globally against all so called “infidels”.

They blame guns because guns don’t vote.

Taking Mayor Daley at face value for a moment, is he seriously arguing for increased gun control on a military base? "

http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/10/...-love-of-guns/

[Maricopa]

Sadly, military bases are as much a gun-free zone as grade schools.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Maricopa

Sadly, military bases are as much a gun-free zone as grade schools.

Exactly. Thanks to Mr. Bill.

Why are Muslims at their bravest when they attack unarmed people ?


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-base-gun-ban/

[VRM]

Anybody should be able to serve in the US military provided that they understand one thing - they have to check their personal life at the door. This includes religion, sexual orientation, political viewpoint, and so on. Your life becomes the property of the United States for whatever term you sign up for. The United States becomes the most important thing in your life, and all of your other issues are put on hold until your CO decides that your primary responsibility to the United States had been fulfilled for the day.
This is one reason why I hate religions - people always seem to think that their personal superstition is more important than the Constitution - maybe you can have that luxury in real life, but I don't think it should be applicable to the military. Anybody of any religion who cannot follow a lawful order needs to get out, or be kicked out.
And I also think that military benefits should be pretty damn good.

Steve

[Buzz]

When we say soldiers who find themselves unable or unwilling to follow directives should be kicked out, I assume that discharge would/should be accompanied by some other punitive measures. Otherwise, any goldbricking deadbeat who decides military life is too tough can act up a bit , get deemed unfit to serve, and score an early discharge.

I can't help but be reminded of a now well-known St. Lucian bodybuilder cum journalist cum political figure who, like many in his day (early 60's) , saw joining the British Army as a way to a better life. He soon found out that he was not cut out for the structure and discipline of the military and submitted numerous unsuccessful requests to get a discharge.

He basically discovered that the only way to get out would be to have himself declared either physically or mentally unfit. The physical part was out of the question because he was already well into bodybuilding, so he set about mimicking the outward signs of schitzophrenia. His CO eventually told him he was onto the scam but since he wanted no unwilling people in his regiment, he gave him his discharge.

Tying back in to the topic, It would become a big problem if, in reaction to the Muslim issue, all a homesick soldier needs to do is act like a possible jihad sympathizer and it's home sweet home. Failing to live up to the commitment a person makes when he signs up for military service must always have serious repercussions.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by bomelia

OK Buzz, peace. I am still searching for the perfect gun for distance running.

Now I need to think of some southern right wing neo-nazi skinhead response to all of this. Jamo gave me some material. Let me ferment upon that.


Mike

If the fermentation becomes too prolonged or severe, I highly recommend Aciphex

[SPF2245]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Just my opinion....but the quality of 18 year-olds being produced by this country today pales miserably in comparison to 1945-1960. The majority of young men were strong, motivated, ethical, hard-working, patriotic God-fearing heterosexuals. Such is not the case today in our "All volunteer" military.

I'm sure the same was said by the WW1 Vet's of the soldiers in WW2, WW2 Vets of Korea/Vietnam Vets, ect. I would caution you though, we have an all volunteer military who continues to volunteer and re-enlist OVER and OVER knowing they'll be doing what...3+ tours in Iraq with a years vacation in Afghanistan. These kids are doing more, for longer with the understanding it isn't going to end soon...and it didn't take a draft card to get them there.
Finally, homo's have been in the militaries through out history...what makes you think today is any different then WW2????

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by SPF2245

I'm sure the same was said by the WW1 Vet's of the soldiers in WW2, WW2 Vets of Korea/Vietnam Vets, ect. I would caution you though, we have an all volunteer military who continues to volunteer and re-enlist OVER and OVER knowing they'll be doing what...3+ tours in Iraq with a years vacation in Afghanistan. These kids are doing more, for longer with the understanding it isn't going to end soon...and it didn't take a draft card to get them there.

True talk.

Finally, homo's have been in the militaries through out history...what makes you think today is any different then WW2????

Alexander The Great was a fruitified fellow, supposedly, and he did a fair bit of damage in his day.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by SPF2245

I'm sure the same was said by the WW1 Vet's of the soldiers in WW2, WW2 Vets of Korea/Vietnam Vets, ect.

I am not talking about the soldiers, I am talking about the kids in our high schools that are becoming eligible to serve. I am raising an 18 year old young man who has already been admitted to a military academy next fall, and I know dozens of his peers as well as many of his fellow seniors. The high school youth of this country are not nearly as capable, willing or able as they were 20, 30 and 40 years ago. And I am not talking about muscular strength.

Originally Posted by SPF2245

These kids are doing more, for longer with the understanding it isn't going to end soon...and it didn't take a draft card to get them there.

That's all fine and good, but we do not have the troop strength to support one more conflict. If we get entangled in conflict with "Insert the Next Muslim Terrorist Country Here," we will have real personnel problems.

Originally Posted by SPF2245

Finally, homo's have been in the militaries through out history...what makes you think today is any different then WW2????

Well let's see, for one thing, in WW2 we didn't have a president leading the charge to let gays openly serve in the military. And whether you know it or not, there wasn't even a HINT of homosexuality known by 99% of the troops in WW2 because it was hidden and not accepted. Go sit with a couple of WW2 veterans at a local VFW club and ask them, "Hey pops, were there any pickle smokers serving with you there on Iwo Jima?" Prepare to get your ass whipped by a couple of old men.

[bomelia]

Its really quite simple. ANY recruit must sign a form stating that he/she would have no problem going to war with anyone of any race, creed, nationality, etc. Long checklist like you fill out at the doctors office. Fail that, you don't get in.

With religion, it is less clear cut. But as with the Japenese Americans, I would most definitely have looked into their loyalty. Many had relatives back on the island. Knowing they might very well be shooting their own relatives would have been a disturbing thought.

But, just because someone has a particular faith is another thing altogether. Muslims in our Army should be disgusted by what these radical Islamists are doing and see them as nothing more than as an apostasy of their own faith...worthy of being eliminated. That is, of course, if the true Islamic faith is one of peace as we are told all the time.

[SPF2245]

"Well let's see, for one thing, in WW2 we didn't have a president leading the charge to let gays openly serve in the military. And whether you know it or not, there wasn't even a HINT of homosexuality known by 99% of the troops in WW2 because it was hidden and not accepted. Go sit with a couple of WW2 veterans at a local VFW club and ask them, "Hey pops, were there any pickle smokers serving with you there on Iwo Jima?" Prepare to get your ass whipped by a couple of old men"

I agree to some degree, but I offer this. In the first Iraq war, I had the chance to play in the desert. There was one officer who was not "openly" gay, but he didn't hide it either. Many
b!t*ched about it during Desert Shield...when we crossed into Iraq under Desert Storm, funny, when he was behind us and in some cases ahead of us leading the way into harms way...we forgot about his preference for men over women. I'd take a round for him the same way he'd took shrapnel for some of his men. My point, men will argue against most anything until the blood flows, then it doesn't really matter, and any real soldier will tell you in combat, crap like gay/straight does not matter...as long as you can fight and you don't leave anyone behind.

[elmariachi]

No doubt, sexual orientation is in a different category than religious preference and my experience with gays in the military generally parallels what you have written.

With regard to the original post, we have been, are now and may always be at war with Muslim nations and as such we are perceived as a Zionist regime. Inevitably, our soldiers may be asked to fight against those Muslim nations and it is an absolute and irreconcilable conflict within the framework of their religion.

The requirement is very plainly stated, if you choose to join:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So helpWith regard to the original post, is whether or not things like religious orientation have an impact on a soldier's ability to serve. No doubt, sexual orientation is in a different category than religious preference and my experience with gays in the military generally parallels what you have written.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Go sit with a couple of WW2 veterans at a local VFW club and ask them, "Hey pops, were there any pickle smokers serving with you there on Iwo Jima?" Prepare to get your ass whipped by a couple of old men.

Now, that's a good one!

[Bill Bess]

Wow! this post is great! I agree with most of the postions other than most gay people will do their jobs just fine and gays aren't an issue here. Ron, is right on with his psoition and El Maraiachi is too.
I have only one thing to say, the FBI and military must have "1-800 Snitch system" that they actual track, so people can inform them of nut case behaviors. Also put these folks in jobs that they can do without violating their religion...like making license plates.

[Sharroll Celby]

...like making license plates in IRAN!!! lol !!!