Senate Health Care Bill

[Dan40]

There is no bill yet, but already they have passed an amendment to the future bill. The amendment REQUIRES insurance companies cover mammograms and pap smears FREE of charge. While I am ALL for preventive screening for both women and men. A Government body requiring a private enterprise to provide a product or service for FREE, just shows the widening disconnect our politicians have with reality.

Free preventive screening,
Accept pre-existing conditions,
Lower premiums,

Ain't gonna happen.,,,,,,,,,,,Can't.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Dan40

The amendment REQUIRES insurance companies cover mammograms and pap smears FREE of charge.

The bill doesn't say "for free"...it says "with no co-pay".

People getting the benefit of this have still paid the premiums needed to be covered by the insurance.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by computerworks

The bill doesn't say "for free"...it says "with no co-pay".

People getting the benefit of this have still paid the premiums needed to be covered by the insurance.

OK,

Free, check that, No Co-pay, preventive screening,
Accept pre-existing conditions,
Lower premiums,

Ain't gonna happen.,,,,,,,,,,,Can't.


Dear Mr. Cobra Mfg.
We the Congress of the United States have decided that in order for you to produce car deemed a "replica." It MUST have a body of aluminum, and a 427 side oiler engine. Furthermore we have deemed it necessary that you reduce your selling prices by 25%. In order to assist you in this endeavor we will be raising your taxes by 40%. Whereas, we have further deemed it necessary that you contribute your FAIR share to the 'unemployment' issue, henceforward you will need to hire 10 new employees, as determined by us, at full pay and benefits. Effective immediately.

In order to finance this program we are levying a 50% luxury tax on your customers.


Makes just as much sense!

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Dan40

Makes just as much sense!

Maybe to you.

Eating a 10-buck co-pay to perhaps save some real payouts in the future, or maybe even (gasp) save someone's life has nothing to do with Cobras.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by computerworks

Maybe to you.

Eating a 10-buck co-pay to perhaps save some real payouts in the future, or maybe even (gasp) save someone's life has nothing to do with Cobras.

Eat a $10. co pay or any other expense, is not part of any business model. Insurance companies have not been against preventive medicine for years. But they have to charge the PROFITABLE premiums to cover it.
The point, which evidently blazed through your wheelhouse, is that politicians are demanding that insurance provide more for less. That cannot happen in light of the FACT that all of your life and all of my life, insurance companies profits have been strictly regulated by the very same politicians. The profit PERCENTAGE of insurance companies is very small.
They make billions of dollars, but at a low percentage. Making many, many dollars can change to huge losses in a blink when the profit percentage is low. The politicians have made the insurance companies to be the bad guy, when it is the politicians that ARE the bad guys.

[computerworks]

Sorry you're losing sleep over this; doesn't matter one way or the other to me.

I just wanted to correct the error in your original post.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by computerworks

Sorry you're losing sleep over this; doesn't matter one way or the other to me.

I just wanted to correct the error in your original post.

There was no error. Free and no co-pay mean it is 100% paid by the insurance co. That is 100% inconsistent with the lying politicians claim that they will bring premiums down. Just another in the long line of vote buys aimed at the poorest and dumbest in our society. Wreck the country if necessary, just do anything to stay in power. That is the politicians single mantra.

[427sharpe]

Actually it means everybody's co-pay goes up to cover the costs. Liberal governments always function well until they run out of someone else's money. I guess that they still feel too many are holding some reserve cash...can't have that, now can we?

[Tommy]

This heated exchange brings to mind one of my concerns about the direction of our health care system. I am concerned that if Congress gets involved in deciding what treatments must be provided and at what cost to the consumer, it opens the door for them to pander to voters without regard to the costs or medical efficacy of the treatments. If the government wants to be involved, it should appoint a balanced commission that could independently make such decisions. We don't need our Congressmen making these decisions for their own benefits.

Incidentally, what Congress did in this matter was use our own money (i.e., insurance premiums) to buy our votes. They can claim they did something good for us without raising the federal budget. A more sensible approach would be to let those who want a zero co-pay for mamograms purchase a policy that provides that benefit. I personally don't need one.

[Excaliber]

...politicians are demanding that insurance provide more for less.

One aspect of controlling cost is based on a larger number of people paying into the system. In particular, young people, who typically don't require nearly as much health care as older folks. With the increase of enrollment the costs can be spread out more effectively. Thus, the insurance companies can provide more coverage at less cost.

[Maricopa]

Huh, sounds like Social Security. Uhh, isn't that going broke BTW?

[Excaliber]

There is a correlation between the two examples Maricopa, worth looking at.

One problem with Social Security is that the funding was SO huge the Gov decided to "borrow" some of the funding for other projects. That was then, this is now.

Now it's simple demographics, not enough young people to pay for the old people and no way to pay back the money that was borrowed! A scenario which could well play out with the insurance health plan goals as well. Less young people, more older folks.

In my opinion the REAL cost savings to fund any new health care plans could be found by more aggressive prosecution of Medicare and Medical fraud. THAT is where the emphasis should be. Of course tort reform would play a significant role in that regard. The proposed bill as big as it is, will be ripe for abuse and fraud.

Doesn't mean we should not proceed, I think we should. But it's going to take years to close the "loop holes" that WILL be found in time. Legal, but unethical loop holes as well as outright fraud.

[Dan40]

So its OK with you liberal dreamers that the Gov. FORCE young people to buy health insurance. It follows that you won't mind if the Government Forces you to scrap your Cobras and ANY other cars and buy a Chevy Volt from Government Motors!

And, like ALL other Government programs, it will not work! Young people being forced to buy something they do not wish yo buy is not only UN-AMERICAN, but the additional income and much, much more will be used up by the over 100 new bureaucracies created. Government has no clue about saving money. A dozen Trillions in debt and spending $1.43 of every $1.00 in income is not the resume of a money manager.

There IS NO difference!

Must buy Government health insurance.
Must buy Government car.
Must buy Government milk.
Must buy Government bread.
Must buy Government clothes.
Must buy Government BALONEY!

[Maricopa]

The leftist mantra with failed socialist programs is always, "It will work, it just wasn't done right in the past." No amount of tinkering was ever going to make the ponzi scheme of SS work and no amount of tweaking will ever make socialized medicine supply the same level of care we get now for less -or even the same- money. Waste and fraud go hand-in-hand with gov't control.

[Excaliber]

Dan40, you to easily jump to extremes! While it is a radical plan to "force" health insurance on the public I won't make the jump from there to "Gov Control" of every aspect of life. Clearly a level of Gov control is REQUIRED for a stable economy and country. It's a necessary evil and no way will it please all the people all the time. Where to draw the line is the question!

Maricopa, would you suggest we scrap SS all together? What would you propose in it's place? Mandatory 401K plans perhaps? There is little question we need health care reform, the question is, what kind of reform and when will it happen? If we do nothing, the wall's will collapse.

[Maricopa]

Sadly we've screwed the pooch on SS. Too many have already been paying in for 30, 40, 50 years to yank it away now. But that doesn't mean we need to repeat the mistake. I would imagine though that at some point we are going to have to bite the bullet and phase it out. it will be costly but necessary.

As for for what mandatory program to take money away from citizens and then trickle it back to them decades later? I don't see where the gov't has that power, so I would suggest it not do it at all.

Health care reform should begin with tort reform and end with the removal of the federal gov't from the health care arena. The system will certainly not collapse without bureaucrats and politicians being involved in it. That fact that you believe that shows just how effective the politics of fear has become.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Dan40, you to easily jump to extremes! While it is a radical plan to "force" health insurance on the public I won't make the jump from there to "Gov Control" of every aspect of life. Clearly a level of Gov control is REQUIRED for a stable economy and country. It's a necessary evil and no way will it please all the people all the time. Where to draw the line is the question!

Maricopa, would you suggest we scrap SS all together? What would you propose in it's place? Mandatory 401K plans perhaps? There is little question we need health care reform, the question is, what kind of reform and when will it happen? If we do nothing, the wall's will collapse.

You have bought into the liberal lie. Would the free market operate problem free? NO!!! But would it operate better than with Government control? YES!!!

Kindly remember that I am an Independent and have no trust for Dems or Repubs. This whole "Health Care Reform" bullsh!t is fueled, driven and kept alive by liberals. And both parties have liberals.

Here is the history** of the latest liberal attempt to take over, not reform, health care.
They started out claiming our health care was BAD. Supposedly TREATMENT was better in 47 countries. A lie!
Then they tried to claim that Doctors and hospitals were intentionally over charging all of us. Another lie!
Then they go with the claim that we MUST cover the 45, 46, 47 million that have no access to health care. The number in this country with no access to health care, including citizens, visitors, and illegals is ZERO. So another lie! More thought seems to have gone into this lie, but it remains a lie.
Now finally it is all about the horrible, unscrupulous insurance companies. They rage through the country pillaging and plundering their CUSTOMERS like Attila the Hun, according to the politicians that totally and completely CONTROL everything that insurance companies are permitted to do. So finally they find a convenient villain, its a lie too, but the public will swallow this lie.
So out of an unrelenting pack of lies and liars, they promise a wonderful, money-saving system. Fer Sur!



**HISTORY, the ultimate swear word to liberals.

[Excaliber]

The system will certainly not collapse without bureaucrats and politicians being involved in it.

Depends on the definition of "collapse", I think we are all ready there! The costs are soaring, that's OK for those with good coverage or that can afford the best. But even for that esteemed group the costs, without control, will continue to go up. Given enough time only the very well connected will be able to get the best care. HUGE problem is the way Medicare and Medical are being run. Doctors get paid per "test" or "treatment".

Example's are everywhere. 80 something year old lady on her death bed, get's a Pap Smear! Get's all kinds of tests and treatments that are ridiculous. Yet that's how the Doctors get paid, all the specialist's in the hospital want a shot at the old lady "cash cow" to get their piece of the pie. Not illegal! You could say, not even unethical (but I would disagree). Reform: Change the way payments are made.

Phasing out SS, an idea that's been thrown around for some time, just like Health Care reform. Not going to be easy, political death for some, but I agree, some action will have to be taken down the road.

80% of the populace being covered for Health Care is an embarrasement to the USA. It should and can be 100%, like most other civilized countries have done.

Dan, I love borrowing your quotes, here's one:

You have bought into the conservative lie.

[Maricopa]

Hmmm, let me see. We have the best care in the world. Everyone gets 'covered' regardless of insurance or ability to pay...hell we even cover people here illegally...but it's ready to collapse? The only problem with our health care system is the cost, which is I agree is exorbanent. I'm self-employed and pay over $700 a month for my family and myself. Total robbery.....untill I spend a week in the hospital and don't have to shell out $100K from my own pocket. However, if you want insurance (as opposed to Health Care) for 100% of everybody, then you pay for it. Don't expect to pick my pocket to fulfill your dream of America becoming a 'civilized' country.

It's funny to see your examples of Medicade/Care fraud coupled with a desire to see the gov't control the rest of the system. It's like complaining about a mechanic screwing you over on a brake job while you're driving there to have him do an engine overhaul. Let's see the gov't fix Medicaide/Care first, then maybe we'll let 'em play with something else.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Depends on the definition of "collapse", I think we are all ready there! The costs are soaring, that's OK for those with good coverage or that can afford the best. But even for that esteemed group the costs, without control, will continue to go up. Given enough time only the very well connected will be able to get the best care. HUGE problem is the way Medicare and Medical are being run. Doctors get paid per "test" or "treatment".

Example's are everywhere. 80 something year old lady on her death bed, get's a Pap Smear! Get's all kinds of tests and treatments that are ridiculous. Yet that's how the Doctors get paid, all the specialist's in the hospital want a shot at the old lady "cash cow" to get their piece of the pie. Not illegal! You could say, not even unethical (but I would disagree). Reform: Change the way payments are made.

Phasing out SS, an idea that's been thrown around for some time, just like Health Care reform. Not going to be easy, political death for some, but I agree, some action will have to be taken down the road.

80% of the populace being covered for Health Care is an embarrasement to the USA. It should and can be 100%, like most other civilized countries have done.

Dan, I love borrowing your quotes, here's one:

Here's one you're welcome to use forever:

"Open you eyes and mind and experience reality. Liberal Utopia CANNOT exist."

What you want is the job of churches, philanthropists, and charities. It is not the job of Government.

Here's one you'll really love"

" The poor are to blame for being poor."

You probably won't use that one so much.