Unemployment OVER 10%

[Excaliber]

More people realize it every day!

I guess your not keeping up with the latest results if you believe that. Obama's poll numbers are UP, his approval ratings are UP. Wall St is UP, consumer spending is UP. The auto market is stabilizing. Fact is, the trends, right now, are showing we are slowly coming out of this mess. This "mess" can only be compared to the Great Depression in it's scope, by the way. What Reagan had to deal with pales in comparison in that regard.

They DO have health care...

Man you are out of touch! Not everyone has health care, it is a Republican lie, flat out. That fact is what the entire health care debate is about!

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I guess your not keeping up with the latest results if you believe that. Obama's poll numbers are UP, his approval ratings are UP. Wall St is UP, consumer spending is UP. The auto market is stabilizing. Fact is, the trends, right now, are showing we are slowly coming out of this mess. This "mess" can only be compared to the Great Depression in it's scope, by the way. What Reagan had to deal with pales in comparison in that regard.



Man you are out of touch! Not everyone has health care, it is a Republican lie, flat out. That fact is what the entire health care debate is about!

You made a prediction, I made a prediction.

If you believe that everyone does not have health care, YOU are believing a liberal lie. Poor, uninsured, illegals and visitors to this country will all be treated if they need it. Not a lie, its the law.

What the health care fiasco is about is POWER. If it was about fixing anything it would not be a 100% locked door partisan endeavor. And please don't try to say Republicans have nothing to add. If there was a perfect fix and Republicans had it, Democrats would not listen and would nix it as they have done with every Republican suggestion.

[Excaliber]

Poor, uninsured, illegals and visitors to this country will all be treated if they need it. Not a lie, its the law.

There it is again, the most STUPID, ARROGANT conservative LIE repeated over and over again. The whole reason behind the current health care to is to SOLVE the very problem you refuse to acknowledge even exists!

A lie (also called prevarication, falsehood) is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment.

See above: That is EXACTLY what the Republicans and Conservatives are doing by making such statements as "it's the law".

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

There it is again, the most STUPID, ARROGANT conservative LIE repeated over and over again. The whole reason behind the current health care to is to SOLVE the very problem you refuse to acknowledge even exists!



See above: That is EXACTLY what the Republicans and Conservatives are doing by making such statements as "it's the law".

Check with any US ER.

[Excaliber]

Check with any US ER.

Well there is the lie exposed for all to see, thank you bringing that up. Or should I say, thank you for sticking your foot in your mouth?

Health care, by law, is available at an emergency room when death is imminent. Until then, go home, prepare to die quietly, we'll see you on your "death bed".

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Health care, by law, is available at an emergency room when death is imminent. Until then, go home, prepare to die quietly, we'll see you on your "death bed".

Ernie you know or you should know that is just not so.
Do a short search and you will see that the ER is used by many for their Primary Care.

[Excaliber]

...yet another classic prevarication,

the ER is used by many for their Primary Care.

This is designed to miss lead folks away from the fundamental problem. Which is: Millions of American's lack Health Care or access to Health Care except in the most dire of conditions.

Indeed a small group, often comprised largely of illegal aliens, has no other choice but to use the ER for medical care. The cost of maintaining this kind of health care is off the chart! It is ONE of the fundamental reason's we need Health Care reform. In fact, it is ONE of the reasons for INCLUDING a way for illegal aliens to get health coverage of some kind!!!

But to suggest that any and all Americans have adequate health care "coverage" by virtue of a visit to an Emergency room is irresponsible. Another equally ridiculous claim, by the Republican party is that Democrats will "ration" health care. Now gimme a break, just how stupid is that statement? Fact is we DO and HAVE "rationed" health care for decades, if not centuries.

[69boss429]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

...yet another classic prevarication, This is designed to miss lead folks away from the fundamental problem. Which is: Millions of American's lack Health Care or access to Health Care except in the most dire of conditions.

Indeed a small group, often comprised largely of illegal aliens, has no other choice but to use the ER for medical care. The cost of maintaining this kind of health care is off the chart! It is ONE of the fundamental reason's we need Health Care reform. In fact, it is ONE of the reasons for INCLUDING a way for illegal aliens to get health coverage of some kind!!!

But to suggest that any and all Americans have adequate health care "coverage" by virtue of a visit to an Emergency room is irresponsible. Another equally ridiculous claim, by the Republican party is that Democrats will "ration" health care. Now gimme a break, just how stupid is that statement? Fact is we DO and HAVE "rationed" health care for decades, if not centuries.

Call me just a visitor here compared to someone who has in excess of 13000 posts to their credit ,or discredit be that as it may, but the debate should really center on the affordibility of health care insurance ,not the availability.
If you have the money,and you choose to spend it health insurance is available to everyone.
A simple thing like open market competition with companies allowed to sell nationwide would go a long way to making what is available ,affordable.
Without the government doing anything except changing the regulations,and costing the taxpayers nothing.

[Excaliber]

...and that is really the whole point of the health care debate 69boss. The very poor have the ER, those that can afford it have insurance. Then there is a HUGE group, perhaps 15 to 20% of Americans that fall through the cracks. We CAN do something about that and should. How to do it, well, the debate rages on.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well there is the lie exposed for all to see, thank you bringing that up. Or should I say, thank you for sticking your foot in your mouth?

Health care, by law, is available at an emergency room when death is imminent. Until then, go home, prepare to die quietly, we'll see you on your "death bed".

Your new board name should be "Baghdad Bob." In addition to ALL ER's, the poor have Medicaid. Already funded by us taxpayers. And they have County Health Services, also free or paid according to their ability. And there are numerous State services. You know, from the States that are BANKRUPT!

Where in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights does it say we are our brothers keepers and MUST be so. I think you are mixing up church and state, something the liberals are dead set against,,,,,,,,,,unless they can use it to their advantage.

In addition to your new handle of "Baghdad Bob," you should be put in charge of the Space Program since you interpret Obum's numbers as UP. You could get us all to Mars in no time.
Could you explain how an overall approval of 46% and an overall DISAPPROVAL rate of 53%, translates into "up?"
And a "strongly approve' of him at 25% while 41% 'Strongly disapprove of his performance. He started at plus 65% just 10 short months ago.
Which way is that UP?

And the stock market is up because the Dollar is down. Thats the first taste of inflation, and about the only sweet taste inflation will deliver. It will become increasingly sour. But inflation is likely to come on very slow this time as the recovery will be equally slow and will happen in spite of monumental mistakes by the administration. All they are doing is slowing the natural recovery.

[Excaliber]

Well Dan, at least you recognize a recovery is underway. In spite of the monumental mistakes of the previous administration(s)...

Aint nothing "natural" about it! It is and will be a direct result of an administration that "hit the ground running" from day one and made some very tough decisions within months of taking office.

[mdmull]

13000 posts - a great example of never learning anything while you're speaking.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

...and that is really the whole point of the health care debate 69boss. The very poor have the ER, those that can afford it have insurance. Then there is a HUGE group, perhaps 15 to 20% of Americans that fall through the cracks. We CAN do something about that and should. How to do it, well, the debate rages on.

The poor in the US--over 50 million of them--receive comprehensive health coverage through Medicaid (a joint federal/state-run program). You consistently seem to overlook this reality.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well Dan, at least you recognize a recovery is underway. In spite of the monumental mistakes of the previous administration(s)...

Aint nothing "natural" about it! It is and will be a direct result of an administration that "hit the ground running" from day one and made some very tough decisions within months of taking office.

Ernie, what's the flavor of that Kool Aid you've been drinking!?

[Excaliber]

mdmull, being your a newbie without a clue, hang around long enough and you might learn something.

Stentor, who qualifies for Medicaid (welfare)? Certainly not the middle class, the working poor, the VAST MAJORITY of Americans who find themselves without access to health care. Your argument carries about the same weight as "well there is always the emergency room." Just another conservative denial tactic.

Republican de-nile, not just a river in Egypt, a freakin' ocean!

For those who haven't been paying close attention to the economic indicators lately, (apparently at least Dan has), we are indeed starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel. These indicators are important to me because it directly relates to certain investment stratagies I may want to pursue. Timing is everything. Now for those who wish to continue the "doom and gloom forecast", carry on, keep your head down, your wallet closed, your voice loud. By the time you figure it out, the moment will have passed, the opportunity gone...

[Jamo]

Back to the discussion of the issue instead of each other or this thread will be closed.

[Excaliber]

Good call Jamo, in keeping with that, let's look at the numbers a little closer.

The "real" unemployment rate is estimated to be, right now, 17.5%. The "actual" number is something like 10%, a slight decline this month. In December of 1982, Reagan year, it was 17.1%. If we had data going back to the Great Depression these numbers would likely be equal or greater than what we had at that time.

I recall some of the economists stating that if we could hold unemployment at the 10% actual number we could turn things around. IF umemployment exceeded 10% it would be catastrophic and deeply problematic for a "recovery". Were right on the edge...

[Ron61]

Ernie,

The numbers are great for applying at the time of a crisis but are not that good for comparing to things many years ago. The population is much greater now than it was in the 30s and 10% of the employable work force now is a lot more than it was back then. And since during the Great Depression if I recall correctly, Roosevelt was both hated and admired. His ratings would have been low when it started and high when it ended because he served so many terms he basically went through the worst and best of it. And as I have stated before, whichever administration happens to be in power when the economy crashes gets the blame and the one in power when it recovers gets the credit. It was far past due for a correction as houses and everything else were so over valued that it was going to collapse of its own weight and then it would have turned around. I think this administration has helped, but they did not turn it around on their own.

Things around here are starting to look up, but all of the places have said they will not hire back all the people they had to let go. I have a feeling this may also happen in a lot of other states and places. That and the amount of people who have drawn their unemployment insurance out and are no longer counted as unemployed have helped lower our figures from just over 14% to around 12%.

Ron

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well Dan, at least you recognize a recovery is underway. In spite of the monumental mistakes of the previous administration(s)...

Aint nothing "natural" about it! It is and will be a direct result of an administration that "hit the ground running" from day one and made some very tough decisions within months of taking office.

You brought up the "Great Depression," comparing it with Obum's crisis. I doubt that is an accurate comparison, but won't argue that point. What is a fair comparison is that both FDR and BHO saw spending our way to prosperity as the way to go. If the public chooses to spend, it works, when the Gov. spends money it doesn't have, AND WON'T GET, it does not work. Throughout FDR's spending programs there were constant signs that recovery was, "just around the corner." A popular Democratic slogan. the stock market rebounded extremely well. BUT, the depression started with the market crash in 1929, and the end of the depression was December 7th 1941. 12 years of outrageous Gov. spending did NOT end the depression despite frequent "signs of recovery." Bombs falling on Pearl Harbor ended the depression, NOT Government waste programs.

[Excaliber]

OK, just to sum this up, the Club Cobra conservative economic recovery plan would be "do nothing".

Let Wall St. collapse, screw AIG, GM is down for the count, don't spend a freakin' dime on anything, close up the treasury, let the banks fail, less Government oversight of the companies and CEO's that gambled the money away, etc. Do NOTHING, scew 'em all!! Don't worry about the Global impact on other National economies, we've rescued their sorry azz'es enough all ready. With "luck" a war might break out and then we'll really be in good economic shape.

Let "nature" will run it's course and stocks will recover in due time, the economy will be fine, no need for Government intervention. Anything the Government might do to stablize the economy is gonna be wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter what, so we don't need them to interfere, we don't want them to interfere.

OOkkkk then, that's quite a platform you guys are working on. Sounds like a helluva plan, or possibly, "sour grapes".