Nascar: 2010

[Joe Wicked]

Yea, I think they realized that before they went back racing, but he didn't want to admit that they screwed up.

[Don]

Somewhat off topic, but also somewhat relevant to the design of the NASCAR cars. ALMS has combined the GT cars into one class for 2010. Included will be the original unique designs of Corvette, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Jaguar, Ford, Panoz and Viper, 8 different looking cars.

Quote from Road & Track:

" It's awesome. It's what the fans want to see. They want to see cars that they recognize, cars that they can go to the dealer and buy. People have embraced ALMS racing "

Next step for NASCAR, return to unique manufacturer body styles, even though it will complicate the inspection process and the debates of old on specific Manufacturers have an unfair advantage, i.e. favoritism, regarding down force and aerodynamics, with NASCAR approving multiple design changes during the year etc . Then the fans can mention the only reason there is a win, due to the manufacturer's design. Petty's use of the high wing Superbird design lasted one year or less before being banned.

[Ron61]

Don,

Besides just liking road racing better, that is another big plus for the ALMS. I can look at the cars and see what they are without having to wait until I can read whatever they have painted on them. I don't think you will ever see NASCAR go back to this. To me, that is why the NASCAR so called manufacturers trophy is a joke.

Ron

[Wayne Maybury]

Don

I have said it before, I believe that NASCAR simply has far too many rules about the design of the cars. There is virtually no room for interpretation and innovation by the teams. I think that the rules should simply stick to anything to do with safety, plus minimum weight, maximum engine displacement and type (carb vs: injection, push rods vs: OHC, etc), as well as some basic rules about the dimensions of the car. Then let the teams innovate and build their cars the best way they can.

You want to run IRS instead of a live axle, go ahead and give it a try. You want an automatic transmission or a 5 or 6 speed instead of a 4 speed, go ahead. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Eventually slower teams will pick up on the features of the faster teams and the cars will all be more or less the same until someone had a better idea then further development would take place. I realize that NASCAR will never let this happen.

Wayne

[Don]

Wayne, comments from NASCAR would indicate that FI is a good possibility within a few years. Attempting to devise, your point on rules, how to regulate, inspect, etc.

Even considering the economic times we are in, with the decreased TV viewing, track attendance, challenges attracting and retaining sponsors, advertising revenue, etc maybe there is realization the approach to the cars, race format etc needs to change.

Just as aside, NASCAR will be inspecting the start and park cars after the race, including motor tear downs and a more thorough look. Thought being there are other Teams that would run the entire race , but failed to qualify.

[Don]

Your tax dollars at work:

The Census Bureau as one of the sponsors for Greg Biffle ?????. Was not mentioned whether for one race at Atlanta or includes other races.

Must have been the same individual that bought an ad for the US Census on the Super Bowl

[Don]

From the Associated Press: Start & Park

" At Vegas, it was Aric Almirola in a car owned by Phoenix Racing that ducked off the track after 23 laps for what was listed as a vibration. The Team collected $79,431 for the effort "

NASCAR is trying to make it tougher on start-and-parks with a new policy of inspecting the first car out of the race that wasn't involved in an accident. It could force Teams to run longer, or, at the minimum, ensure the cars will be forced to prove they are legal and made the race fair and square "

So called complete inspections include a motor tear down to the bare block, as NASCAR hands the Team back the parts. Other Teams that do not qualify have stated their intention is to run the entire race.

[Ron61]

That is one of the changes I would like to see made. The start and park group just messes up the standings as they always make sure that none of the top people can finish last if they wreck early because they have already taken the last several spots.

Ron

[Ron61]

Well I was happy to see Bush win, but I thought that Carl Edwards acted about as stupid as a driver can. So he was mad about being bumped in the early stages and wrecking. That was one of those close racing incidents and what he did near the end was ridiculous. BK has wrecking people by accident down to an art and a lot of drivers are just waiting to get back at him, but this was a dangerous move on Edwards part. Maybe once they get rid of that asinine wing the cars won't go airborne so fast. But all in all it was a better race than normal. Jeff Gordon sure had his problems and so did a lot of others with the tire issue. But I feel that was more of a set up problem than anything wrong with the tires.

Ron

[tcrist]

As much as I lake Carl, I think that he should be parked for at least 5 races and fined $250K for his stupidity. I hope they do not fine Jack or the crew chief. They had nothing to do with this.

[Ron61]

Terry,

I agree. I like Carl too, but that was a bonehead move and he should have to pay for it. Just like I think they shouldn't take points from the driver if the crew chief does something illegal to the car as most of the time the driver doesn't know about it.

I just hope that NASCAR doesn't decide to take back all authority and refuse to let them drive as these are the first pretty good races they have had in years. And even then the attendance is still dropping. I saw the figures for TV on the Daytona 500 and was surprised that they were so much lower than last years.

I still would like to see these NASCAR designed cars in a junk yard and have them go back to racing real cars with all of the safety features installed.

Ron

[Wayne Maybury]

Some thoughts on the race yesterday.

- Some good racing, some bad wrecks.
- I thought that Kasie Kane had the best car but he got hung up during the final re-start and just didn't have a chance to catch Kurt Busch.
- Several of the Fords did very well. This is the fiest time this season that the Ford power was impressive. Are they running the new engine now?
- Almost all of the Chevies had tire problems, really strange.
- I was disappointed in the way Carl Edwards handled the situation late in the race. This was very dangerous and could have turned out much worse.
- The Edwards incident all but proves that the wing is responsible for these cars turning upside down.
- Lots and lots of empty seats at Atlanta.

Wayne

[lnfletcher]

I believe that the attendance and viewing is dropping ever since they went to the silly race for the chase format.

[Ron61]

Wayne,

I thought the three best cars were Bush, Kane, and Montoya. Bush had the best car all day on the short runs and then Kane and Montoya would catch and pass him. In this situation where there were only a few laps left, I felt Bush would win and he did a good job.

As for the Chevies, I think they just had to much tilt built into the wheels. Even the back ones were wearing out the inside of the tires where they had tilted them in. A bad miscalculation on the part of Childress and Hendrick teams. Look at Jeff Gordon. He was running 3rd and they had just said he had the fastest car out there and all of a sudden he is in the pits and laps down. Jimmy Johnson had the same problems but I think he took it easier on his tires than the others. He saw what was going on and decided to get the best finish he could and not wreck.

And there were lots of empty seats. And I think there will be for quite a while to come. NASCAR has ruined their racing with all of their have to control everything from the car to the springs and etc.

Ron

[Don]

What has happened in the past, and whoever was at fault, between Edwards and Keselowski, did in no way justify Edwards intentional move to wreck him. Besides destroying a $100K+ race car which is only money, the possibility of the car or debris going into the stands, the human tragedy. The commentators mentioned seeing Edwards, with his white gloves, turning right.

With all the criticism regarding COT & NASCAR, amazing the driver survived and was able to walk to the ambulance, initially with a slight limp. The higher by approx 5" greenhouse above the driver's head and revised roll cage helped in minimizing the compression. With or without the wing and going to a spoiler, a car can still flip.

The fines, not sure if the driver really pays 100% or the Team's owner helps to pay some or all. The link below mentions that NASCAR will meet today/tomorrow to arrive at a penalty. There would be more impact to the driver and Team, with sponsor consequences, if both the driver AND the car are suspended, 5 races would be fine. Roush was all over Busch a few years ago for his antics, wonder how he will handle Edwards.The loss of points for 5 races would more than likely eliminate Edwards from the Chase.

"But the most dramatic event in the closing laps was an incident between Brad Keselowski and Carl Edwards, who had been locked in a shoving match for several laps. As the duo streaked across the start/finish line with two laps to go, Edwards appeared to intentionally nudge Keselowski's left rear quarter-panel, propelling Keselowski into the wall and then airborne before ferociously smashing his upturned car into first the wall and then the track surface.

"The No. 99 just wrecked me intentionally on the straightaway," Keselowski said as he left he infield care center, where he had been seen and released. "I was cutting him some slack because I knew he was angry, but I guess it wasn't enough slack, and he about killed me."

Edwards was promptly black-flagged and ordered to the NASCAR hauler.

"Brad knows the deal between him and I," Edwards said. "The scary part was his car went airborne, which was not at all what I expected. I wish it wouldn't have gone like it did, but I'm glad he's okay ... maybe him and I won't get in any more incidents together." "

Additional:

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=359641

[Ron61]

Don,

While I completely agree with your comments regarding what Edwards did, I do not and have never liked the so called COT or NASCAR Car. Remember it was just last year in the Daytona 500 that Keselowski sent Edwards into the fence and really hurt some fans. What happened in the past should stay there, but this farce of a car should be replaced, and they can make real cars just as safe by adding the safety features to them. I also noticed as Wayne pointed out, the empty seats. And as I stated earlier, I was really surprised when they finally published the ratings for this years Daytona 500. I thought they would be higher but they were way below last years.

Ron

[PatBuckley]

Carl Eswards note to self: Start wearing dark colored gloves.

[Don]

Ron.....would you make the greenhouse as tall? Ask some of the taller drivers where the top of the helmet at one time just about touched the roll cage.

[Ron61]

Why couldn't they just do what Shelby did with the Gurney Hump. Also the seats can be lowered and other things changed that would not compromise safety in any way. I just don't like hand made cars that you have to read what is painted on them to tell what make they are supposed to be. Also they have killed all innovations by the crews. so nothing gets improved on the models made by the actual manufacturers any more because of some racing mechanic coming up with a good idea.

Sorry Don, on most things we agree but I will never and never have liked this NASCAR car. If they want to race it and control everything themselves, then change the name from NASCAR and I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it as they wouldn't be trying to push something off on the public that is as phony as some of their rules.

EDIT: New rules and specs for spoilers. http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/stor...or-Cup-spoiler


Pat,

Now that was a funny remark and I wonder if we will see all of the drivers show up with black gloves after this.

Ron

[Wayne Maybury]

I was really quite disappointed when I saw Carl wreck the 12 car. That was very dangerous and he certainly deserves to sit out a few races to think about what he did and what the result could have been. He could have easily waited for a better time or place, like Bristol or Martinsville where the speeds are much slower. Dale Earnhart Sr. used to push anyone/everyone out of his way. He wrecked or spun out more cars than the rest of the drivers put together. Maybe Carl thinks that he is the reincarnation of Dale Sr.

Ron, you are right about the amount of camber the Chevies were using. The commentators also mentioned that some teams are bending the rear axle housing to try to make the car turn better but this is also very hard on the tires. One way or the other, the Chevies went through a bunch of rubber yesterday.


As far as the spoiler is concerned, NASCAR is handling it in exactly the way they handle everything else. They are not only specifying every aspect of the spoiler but they are actually going to supply the spoilers to each team. Why not just tell the teams to make their own spoilers. The specs are that it cannot be bigger that 4" by 65" (this is just an example) and must be made from plastic or aluminum no thicker than 1/4". Give the teams some freedom to design and build some parts.

Wayne
Wayne