'Jesus Scopes' in Line of Fire - Page 2

SPF2245 · #21 (**permalink**) 01-20-2010, 03:18 PM

Gunner, that is the problem with historians...most have never spent a day outside a classroom. I define win as beat the enemy on the battle field, remove the former Gov't which had caused the conflict and put in power a new Gov't. Then you get the heck out of dodge. We seem to have forgot how to do the last two items, maybe because the precedent was set with Pres. Johnson to not allow a strong "Eisenhower" type to control the conflict which would have made a new national hero to replace the idiot Democrates in power at that time. But wait, no one want's to talk about that in history...'cause it's not written in any book, but the feelings of soldiers then and now. Last time I checked, McNamara thought you could win a battle by controlling "X" number of bullets fired, used math formulas of body counts to figure out how to win, gave soldiers an untested weapon to use in combat (and then required it and it's ammo changed to control costs), yep...classic book smart kid put in a place he had no business being in. Result, one lost war. Next example?

Fordzilla · #22 (**permalink**) 01-20-2010, 04:15 PM

SPF2245, I just read the entire thread & I agree 100% with what you've said.
Gunner, not to offend you but I don't agree with anything you've said other then we have to win on many levels.
The first level is feeding them lead & lots of it. Not a religious war? Yeah right, ask any one of them.
I say put the verse reference on the hardware & the little fish symbol too!
I also like the idea of the bullets dipped in pigs blood!
Oh & by the way, If hooking up a car battery to an insurgents testicles with jumper cables saves just one American life, then I only have one thing to say- Red is positive & Black is ground!

Gunner · #23 (**permalink**) 01-20-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPF2245

Gunner, that is the problem with historians...most have never spent a day outside a classroom.

A great number of current historians of the era were in the sh*t.

You perhaps need to do some reading on the era in material written since the crybaby Carter administration.

turnpike boy · #24 (**permalink**) 01-20-2010, 09:11 PM

Gunner, where do we begin?

It isn't the Muslims who have a problem with the verse on the ACOG - it's folks like Mr. Weinstein and, apparently, you too. It isn't the grunts who see this as catastrophic to the cause - it's doubtful most ever knew what it was until this was pointed out to them. And the military didn't "officially sanction" that inclusion; if the scope met the RFP parameters and was priced right, or had the manufacturer's congressman on their doorstep, then it was purchased, mark and all.

Jihadists don't care what's on your weapon - only that they kill you before you kill them. Finding that mark on a scope wouldn't drive them into a more-murderous rage, nor would it serve to inflame local perceptions - most non-combatants just want to stay alive and out of the fight. COULD it piss some off? - possibly. WOULD it serve as a rally point? - incredibly improbable. Bullets whizzing past and explosives are far more position-forming than some totally obscure mark on the base of a scope.

Religion is politics too - same objective in the end. And while WMDs may well have been a supportive argument for the action, Beirut/USS Cole/The World Trade Centers are justification for the action and, quite frankly, are reason enough.

bomelia · #25 (**permalink**) 01-20-2010, 09:31 PM

Stop being politically correct. Nobody would be offended if there was an American flag on there, would they? OK, someone would be offended. Someone always is. If you don't like it, grind it off. Stop waisting bandwidth on "being offended". Its wasteful and offensive. And stoopid.

SPF2245 · #26 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

A great number of current historians of the era were in the sh*t.

You perhaps need to do some reading on the era in material written since the crybaby Carter administration.

Gunner, I have. And some make great remarks regarding past mistakes made in history. However, I believe if you only read peoples opinions or use one source of history to make an opinion then you will never understand history. It's like only reading the news from one paper, you never get all the facts. It's better to study history books filled with facts and draw your own conclusion then to trust the interpretation of the facts by an author and call it fact.

Gregg(What's his name)? · #27 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 06:27 AM

Man I loved my ACOG. I wish I knew this before I left Iraq. Hell I think I just might buy stock in the company just to show my support. BTW I have read all the posts on this thread and Gunner you seemed to be out numbered. Keep up the good fight, but remember its those of us that use the ACOG keep this country safe.

Excaliber · #28 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 07:44 AM

There has always been a silent bunch around here that just doesn't want to get into with some folks. As it regards Vietnam, count me that way. The topic is barely worth a comment as I have no stomach to re-live it. In this case, I agree with Gunner. There was no way to win that war, it was folly to continue, we should have pulled out years before we did.

Gregg(What's his name)? · #29 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 01:17 PM

My only problem with what Gunner said is that we did win Vietnam. No the politians loss the war and gave those of us who serve the black eye.

lovehamr · #30 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 06:08 PM

Gunner, Just one question (at least to start LOL): have you ever served?

Steve

turnpike boy · #31 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

There has always been a silent bunch around here that just doesn't want to get into with some folks. As it regards Vietnam, count me that way. The topic is barely worth a comment as I have no stomach to re-live it. In this case, I agree with Gunner. There was no way to win that war, it was folly to continue, we should have pulled out years before we did.

So.....we're to count you as not wanting to get into it, and you feel it's not worth a comment..........and then you do precisely that, with a comment sure to provoke a reaction.

Ex, I think you were born a contrary.

Excaliber · #32 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 06:41 PM

My singular comment on this issue is that I agree with Gunner's evaluation. What is this another Vietnam thread? Isn't health care and the Demo - Repub thing and politics enough to talk about? Let it go, the war has been over. I have no desire to discuss it.

BUT, my comment was made in support of a member for voicing his opinion on the matter. I think it is grossly unfair to continue the "harassement" of Gunner for stating his opinion by asking him if he served!

Do those who serve have some special inside track on information? Do they have some right above others to voice their opinion? I know many who have served, they're still azzholes, they still have opinions, they're not any smarter about any given subject than someone who hasn't served. In fact they may be LESS QUALIFIED because of certain prejudices. Now I don't know if Gunner served or not, don't care, I respect and happen to agree with his opinion on this issue.

turnpike boy · #33 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 07:00 PM

a Nam thread at all. It's been hijacked by rabid intolerance to another subject altogether.

Gunner, like you, is certainly entitled to his opinion. Gunner, like you, won't be convinced out of his opinion by any argument or criticism or logic at odds with his (or yours).

All OK. You're both entitled to feel the way you do. Unfortunatley, your shared feelings are a distinct minority within this thread - just something that will have to be lived with, I suppose.

Excaliber · #34 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 07:07 PM

Well duh, my opinion is in the minority around here? Wow, there's a news flash! Hardly a thread I post on around these parts where it's not. I gotta chuckle at it.

Scott S · #35 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 07:09 PM

One of these scopes?

Encoded serial #s or what anything that keeps our troops out of harms way is fine by me.

Scott S

Excaliber · #36 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 07:14 PM

Scott, some how I find that most disturbing (the poster). I mean, if your Muslim and get taken out by a woman, (gasp, with ear rings and lipstick), does that put in jeopardy the whole 70 something virgins thing?

Scott S · #37 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Scott, some how I find that most disturbing (the poster). I mean, if your Muslim and get taken out by a woman, (gasp, with ear rings and lipstick), does that put in jeopardy the whole 70 something virgins thing?

Are you going to ask HER if she is chaste?

Scott

SPF2245 · #38 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 10:32 PM

Ex, where does it say the virgins are female? No, I'm not directing that at you, just hoping some kookoo-bird in the mid-east living in a cave reading this site has a split second question in his mind right before he goes "Boom".

Excaliber · #39 (**permalink**) 01-21-2010, 10:47 PM

Ouch, that is twisted man, twisted.

...but, what if your right????

turnpike boy · #40 (**permalink**) 01-22-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well duh, my opinion is in the minority around here? Wow, there's a news flash! Hardly a thread I post on around these parts where it's not. I gotta chuckle at it.

Will Rogers said it best: "When you find yourself in a hole, first thing to do is stop digging."

Happy for ya, keep chuckling.