Gas Question For Northern Calif.

[Ron61]

Since we can only get 91 octane at the pumps up here I have been using Chevron or one of the name brands. Still crappy. I tried a tank of Valero and couldn't tell it was any different from the Chevron or Union 76, except it was about 3 cents per gallon cheaper. It is to far to drive to get the 93 unleaded without any Ethanol in it every time I need gas.

Do any of you chemists or gas people have any suggestion about which is the better brand? I won't fill up at the mini marts at all. I am using this in a 1965 Comet with a stock 289 two barrel carburetor.

Ron

[Got the Bug]

Ron,

I regularly use Valero gas in my daily driver and also put a tank in the Cobra from time to time. I'm no expert, but the stuff seems to work fine. I usually try and stick to Union 76 for the Cobra. For the daily drivers, I've used Valero, Costco, and Rotten Robbie...all seem to be excellent with no noticeable problems or degradation in performance.

[392cobra]

Valero is the largest refiner in North America.Not a fly by night operation.

It's based in San Antonio and it's name "Valero" comes from there.
The name Valero comes from Misión San Antonio de Valero, better known worldwide as The Alamo.

[Wayne Maybury]

Gasoline is basically a commodity which is only made by a limited number of producers. For example, the gas you buy at a Shell station may actually have been made by Chevron, or vice versa. The major refiners are always swapping product. The only exception years ago was Sunoco who added a different color to their gas but I really don't know if that is still the case as there are no Sunoco stations here anymore. While there may be exceptions, I doubt that there are many independents gasoline retailers that are actually operating a refinery.

Wayne

[Ron61]

Thanks for the answers guys. We can't get Sunoco up here any more either. I know that the companies swap gas and then some of them add their own additives, but I have sen so many problems the past year with engines and this cheap gas I won't buy it. I had rather pay a little more and get gas that isn't going to cause me a big repair bill later. I think I will stick with the Valero and Chevron as that is what we have here.They have Shell and Union 76 in Redding also, but no reason to drive in there just for gas.

Ron

[bdeutsch]

While I do not know if their is any collusion between BMW and Chevron, I know that for my M5, BMW recommends Chevron Premium. I have tried other brands (in Sacramento area), to test the recommendations and save some money, but I can tell when something other than Chevron Premium is used in the car.

Nothing particularly scientific to my conclusions and there is always a chance that I am over sensitive to engine sounds when not using Chevron...

[Gunner]

Other than one tank of obviously bad gas I bought from a noname station perhaps twenty-five years ago, I have never been able to pin engine or drivability problems on the "quality" of the gas, from Chevron to Arco to Sam's Club to small discount independents. The requirements for gasoline are so strict that the difference between "cheap" gas sold for a few cents less to independents and Chevron's extra sprinkle of Techromagicgoo is likely indistinguishable outside of a laboratory. And no, I don't drive lawn mowers - this is all in high-end, high-performance engines, the lowest of which was a Honda V-6.

I think it might have more to do with how well the seller maintains their filtering and moisture control of dispensed gas, and how long each gallon sits at a particular seller. Most sellers only buy a specific amount at a time instead of keeping their tanks filled (betting on cost drops at every time, like any frugal driver), so even low-traffic indies are not likely to have stale, watery gas.

But to each his own. I worked with a guy who had to stretch every dollar until Washington screamed, and he INSISTED that his plain-jane mid-80s Corolla would only run on Shell Premium, the most expensive gas in a five mile radius.

Ron, I'd guess any problems you've had are from the relative remoteness of your location, which might limit supply options and increase fuel contamination and age problems. I know people along the remoter stretches of Highway 1 have similar issues.

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Thanks for the answers guys. We can't get Sunoco up here any more either. I know that the companies swap gas and then some of them add their own additives, but I have sen so many problems the past year with engines and this cheap gas I won't buy it. I had rather pay a little more and get gas that isn't going to cause me a big repair bill later. I think I will stick with the Valero and Chevron as that is what we have here.They have Shell and Union 76 in Redding also, but no reason to drive in there just for gas.

Ron

Actually Ron, it sounds like a very good reason to take a ride.

[twobjshelbys]

Valero also has many "brands". They go by the name "Diamond Shamrock" in Colorado.

[Rick Parker]

Ron: Don't forget that aside from the fuel being unleaded, the Octane ratings are about 3 points less per grade than they were when your Comet hit the road. You may also be getting the last of the oxygenated Winter gas burned out of the car. That is horrible stuff. I'm still searching for that elusive Chevron "White Pump", remember the light green color; and I think it was 100 Octane......43 cents a gallon. The '66 442 loved it.

[WardL]

Particularly so in California, the base gasoline is the same. The difference comes from the additives put in the fuel when it is branded at the truck rack. Chevron has their Techron, Shell with their Nitrogen enriched. I believe gasoline supplied in the Shasta area comes out of the terminal in Chico where the Shell, 76, Chevron, ARCO, Valero, Safeway, etc, regular gasoline is stored in the same tank. Premium gas is stored in another tank for all brands. When the delivery truck fills up for Chevron, they add the Techron, etc. The EPA requires all fuels to have additives to keep an engine clean. All gasolines have the additives. Some areas of the country have segregated fuels, but not many.

It is impossible to scientifically tell the difference between one expensive tank of gas and the next tank of cheap gas. Your mind will play tricks on you and you THINK you can tell a difference, but you really can't. It is really interesting how advertising can influence your mind!

The expensive brands do add more additive that will keep your engine cleaner over many thousands of miles or more. But California gasoline is so clean already due to the state requirements, I'm not sure that statement really even applies in California.

[Ron61]

Rick,

The Chevron white Pump Gas here was 105 octane and that was what the book for the 69 Cobra recommended. When they went to this no lead, low octane, I had to have the pistons changed to lower the compression to 10.5 and if I just drive it down the road and don't pull hard, it does ok, but I still buy the 110 leaded racing gas for it. I drove it over to the Finishline place a month ago and it now has 42, 281 miles on it. I could have the heads changed to good aluminum, ones which would make it run better on pump gas as they would dissipate the heat better, but I wanted to keep the iron 427 heads it came with, and since I don't drive it over 300 miles per year I don't have to buy much gas for it.

Gunner and all the rest, thanks for your answers. I have gotten a couple of tanks of bad gas at some of the local mini marts and so have other people around here, yet they do a huge business because of their cheap prices. I will stick with the Valero and other name brands as I don't drive a lot any more. I believe my total for all of last year on the Comet was around 3700 miles

Ron

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by WardL

Particularly so in California, the base gasoline is the same. The difference comes from the additives put in the fuel when it is branded at the truck rack. Chevron has their Techron, Shell with their Nitrogen enriched. I believe gasoline supplied in the Shasta area comes out of the terminal in Chico where the Shell, 76, Chevron, ARCO, Valero, Safeway, etc, regular gasoline is stored in the same tank. Premium gas is stored in another tank for all brands. When the delivery truck fills up for Chevron, they add the Techron, etc. The EPA requires all fuels to have additives to keep an engine clean. All gasolines have the additives. Some areas of the country have segregated fuels, but not many.

It is impossible to scientifically tell the difference between one expensive tank of gas and the next tank of cheap gas. Your mind will play tricks on you and you THINK you can tell a difference, but you really can't. It is really interesting how advertising can influence your mind!

The expensive brands do add more additive that will keep your engine cleaner over many thousands of miles or more. But California gasoline is so clean already due to the state requirements, I'm not sure that statement really even applies in California.

True, except the oil companies do put brand tracer additives in there fuel so they can test it at the stations. I owned three 76 stations in SoCal, and we had a local competitor that was selling plan rack gas at his branded station. He was trucking his own fuel, so he was able to do this. I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time, so I use Chevron, 76 or Shell for the extra additives. I mix in some race gas for the Cobra.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by SP01715

True, except the oil companies do put brand tracer additives in there fuel so they can test it at the stations. I owned three 76 stations in SoCal, and we had a local competitor that was selling plan rack gas at his branded station. He was trucking his own fuel, so he was able to do this. I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time, so I use Chevron, 76 or Shell for the extra additives. I mix in some race gas for the Cobra.

That is what the guy down at the Redding plant told me. That is where I have to go to get my racing gas and other high octane unleaded with no Ethanol in it. He said it basically all starts out the same and then the companies add their own additives or whatever to it, and I would be better off to stay with Chevron, 76, or Shell and avoid the cheap mini mart gas.

Ron

[WardL]

How far is it to Oregon? They have 92 octane with 10% ethanol there. It should really be about 92.5 octane the way they blend it up there.

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by WardL

How far is it to Oregon? They have 92 octane with 10% ethanol there. It should really be about 92.5 octane the way they blend it up there.

It is about a 2 hour drive for me to Oregon, but I want to get away from the Ethanol in my lawn and off road stuff. The 93 blend here is more like 94 as it has no Ethanol at all. And I don't use a lot of racing gas any more so a barrel lasts me for a long time.

Ron

[Jcamper]

My family has owned gas stations for about 25 years; I ran one of them for the last 10. We used to be branded, but switched to unbranded a few years ago. The difference between branded and unbranded is a few squirts of additive in each compartment of the truck. They all use the same fuel. Heck, now that I'm unbranded, when the market gets weird and branded is cheaper, I have branded fuel in my tanks. Modern fuel dispensers ("pumps") and tanks have self monitoring systems and are extremely reliable and clean. Water is a fact of life in all tank systems as a result of condensation. As long as you are turning over your fuel inventory every few weeks, which most places do, that will not be an issue. Moral of the story: branded fuel is a waste of money in most markets. Jeff

[Ronbo]

Some years back I was doing a tower job near the BP storage facility on the north end of town. I saw trucks from 6 different chains filling off the same tanks, none of them were BP.

Add a gallon or two of xylene (117) or toluene (111) if you want to bump the octane up.

Or you can get this: http://www.sunocoinc.com/Site/Consum...California.htm

[Ron61]

We can't get Sunoco up here and haven't been able to for 20 years. Not sure why. As for the xylene (117) or toluene (111) I haven't found any place around here that handles it. Maybe Northern Lights which is more of a pumping station than anything and that is where I get my 110 leaded racing gas. I may give them a call and see if they have it. So far the 93 octane without Ethanol has been working well.

Ron

[WardL]

The one thing I'll add to Jcamper's story is some marketers (Exxon, Chevron, BP, 76, I know of), add twice the additive to keep your engine cleaner. Unfortunately, Valero is not one of the companies that add twice the additive. The Costco, Safeway, or high volume retailers (HVRs) add the absolute minimum additive. The Valero, ARCO and other oil companys add a little more than the HVRs. This additive is very good for your engine and is required by the EPA.