Smog BS/SB-100 Changed?

[tcrist]

Have they changed the smog laws again here in CA.?

Now my replica was built in the early 90's and registered by the owner here in Ca. He never had to smog it.

I bought it (compleatly taken apart). I registered it in my name in 2005. I never had to smog it.

I just received my renewal for my registration and it has "Smog Req". Why after all these years do they say that I have to smog it?

My reg says "YR MODEL= 0000 MAKE= SPCNS"

I know we have beat the SB-100 question do death but this one is a new one on me.

Any suggestions on why they are F*****G with me/us now?

[Paul F]

'Built in the '90s' - registration in the '90s required smog for all cars. The exception would be if he installed a 1964 or earlier motor in it. There was no SB-100 for most or all of the '90s (not sure what year SB-100 came in effect) OR if he later re-registered it under SB-100.

Your registration of SPCNS and year of 0000 does not necessarily indicate that it is an SB-100 car, but it is a strong indicator that it is. All specially constructed vehicles (SB-100 or not) are registered as SPCNS. But the year of 0000 to me, does indicate an SB-100 registration.

The way to prove it is an SB-100 registered car is to look at the sticker the referee put on the car (somewhere in the engine compartment, probably the firewall). It will say SB-100 on it. If it doesn't, it isn't, and the DMV has woken up to that fact.

The good news is that if it is not an SB-100 car, it is very easy for you to make it an SB-100 car.

It's as easy as pie for a car already registered. There are no forms. It costs nothing. Sumbich, the state actually does something for free.

1. Go directly to DMV with registration in hand (bring the title for fun, but I don't believe you need it for this visit). Say "I want an SB100 Sequence number" If you get a puzzled look, repeat statement until a supervisor shows up. They will hand you an UNOFFICIAL piece of paper with the sequence number hand-written on it.
2. Wait for the official paper with the sequence number on it to show up in the mail. 2-6 weeks.
3. Call for a referee appointment from the Bureau of Automotive Repair.
4. Go to the referee with registration, title, and sequence number paper you received in the mail.
5. Sit quietly. The referee will put a sticker on your car.
6. Drive away a happy person. You now have an SB100 car. But you're not done.
7. Return to DMV with title and registration and whatever the BAR gave you.
8. The DMV will take your title and give you a new temporary registration.
9. A new title will arrive in the mail.

[tcrist]

It is not an SB-100 car but it does have a BAR sticker on it that just states the enigine info (1969 302 at that time) and what smog equipment is req for that (PCV).

I have no problem getting a SB-100. I have posted before about the way my replica is registered and not having to have it smoggged and almost everyone said "You dont have a thing to worry about. Get an SB-100 if you want but you don't need one". I believe even Morgester but I could be wrong on that.

I e-mailed Morgester yeaterday and am waiting to see what he says.

The main thing that gets to me is it never had to be smogged. "NEVER", so why now? (I did read your statment about DMV catching up with it).

[Rick Parker]

Yes guys the Smog reg on for SPCN cars changed. All newly constructed ones require all smog equipt for the year of registration as I understand it or get an SB100. Previously registered such as yours Terry can qualify for and get a variation of the SB100 (SB1478??)

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/01_ConsumerA...Fact_Sheet.pdf

[Paul F]

Quoting tcrist "It is not an SB-100 car but it does have a BAR sticker on it that just states the enigine info (1969 302 at that time) and what smog equipment is req for that (PCV)."

So then it does need to be smogged. They probably have someone combing through and cleaning things up.

I was in the same situation. I had not smogged my 1995 car for a couple of years and suddenly they insisted it had to be smogged. It was bogus that it did not need to be smogged, because the rules back then stated all cars had to be smogged to the year of the motor or year of the registration (your choice). But the DMV was very poor in its handling of this in the '90s and mislabeled some cars.

You now HAVE to get an SB-100 because it sounds like you changed the motor and of course, you will not pass inspection.

[tcrist]

I just got back from the DMV. After 2 hours they tell me that I have "VALID" SB-100.

I asked why then do I need a smog and they said that the BAR must have asked for it.

I called the BAR and they said that they dont ask for smogs. But to clear this up, I need to make an appointment and bring the car to them for inspection and they will determine if it qualifies as a SPCSN vehicle. My guess is that because it was registered before SB-100, they want to make sure it is registered correctly.

That still does not explain why, as I do have an SB-100, they are screwing with me on the smog after being on the road for around 20 years.

Guess I have to button up the transmissing repair, re-install the carpet and seats then make an appointment with the BAR.

What a bunch of BS.

[Paul F]

From my experience, the DMV often does not know what it is talking about. There are two things that don't add up and I am not convinced you won't have issues again in the future if you don't redo the SB-100 (meaning go to the DMV and ask for an SB-100 without saying anything else).

1. Your BAR label does not say SB-100 - you said it does not. That makes me think something is not right. The DMV is looking at the registration, which says SPCNS and 0000. That does indicated SB-100, and that is probably why the DMV thinks it is SB-100, but something/one else in the buracracy does not think it is an SB-100, otherwise:

2. If it were truely SB-100, they would not be asking for smog. Find out what triggered the smog inspection. You need to get to the source of this or it will come up again.

[Paul F]

I would not make an appointment with the BAR until your sure you know what it is that needs to be done. Call the BAR, ask them how to tell if a car is SB-100. Ask if your car is SB-100. Ask them why you have to get your car smogged if it is SB-100. For any question that they say is a DMV question, call DMV and request an SB-100 expert. Insist on it and tell them you keep getting conflicting information from DMV agents and you need an expert.

[tcrist]

I talked on the phone to a smog tech at the BAR. He told me to come in and have the car inspected. Then I can go forward from there.

Is there local DMV that is more on the ball about SB-100? Manteca is not it as far as I am concerned.

Thanks guys

[Rick Parker]

The DMV & BAR are two separate entaties, checks. & balances. If the SB100 was not totally completed with the final label attached to the car and the necessary papers shuffled between DMV & the BAR it will still trigger a smog. There is Red Tape h
Galor. It is so nîce to have it behind me.

[tcrist]

According to Mr. Morgester, they should have made me go through this in 2005.

I'll just button up the repair and make an appointment with the BAR. Then see what happens after that.

[Got the Bug]

Terry,

It's a hell of a haul from Manteca, but if you run into any problems try contacting Jody (supervisor) at the DMV in Santa Clara. She is awesome, and unlike most civil servants she is customer oriented, fully understands the SB100 process, and is focused on resolving problems.

[Got the Bug]

BTW - If the BAR recognizes your SB100, the BAR might just be formality. You go, you fail, they enter the SB100, then you're smog exempt again. Good luck and keep us posted.

[tcrist]

Thanks Doug. I'll have to check them out. It has probably moved since the last time I was there (30 years ago).

[Paul F]

I suggest you do not go to the BAR first. This is an extra step that may cause problems and I don't believe is necessary. Just go for the SB-100 by going to the DMV and get the sequence number, then go to the BAR to get your SB-100 sticker. In this situation, they will not inspect your car. Since it is properly registered and properly labeled SPCNS, they will just go through the normal SB-100 process, WHICH HAS NO INSPECTION for a previously registered car. I know, I've done it. They simply take your registration, your sequence number, and title, and then put a new, SB-100 sticker on it. The only time spent under the hood was to look at the old sticker and put on the new one. My car was never even in the BAR garage. They just did it where I parked it in the lot.

Since your car does have a different motor than when originally registered, something might come up with the paperwork, but it shouldn't matter, as SB-100 doesn't care what motor you have in the car. The referee will probably just update the motor information.

Save yourself a step and get the sequence number first.

[tcrist]

Paul,

Can you just ask for an SB100 sequence number without giving them any information on a vehicle?

Getting the SB100 sequence number is what I tried yesterday. They would not give me one because they said that I already had one on this vehicle.

[bingo2]

Terry...you can try this if you like, it may or may not help.

This is a phone number for the DMV Involuntary Transfer Division; 916-657-7704. If you decide to call, ask for Lisa. She was very helpful in assisting me with my SB100 process and provided assistance to my local DMV office regarding the SB100 procedure.

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by tcrist

Paul,

Can you just ask for an SB100 sequence number without giving them any information on a vehicle?

Getting the SB100 sequence number is what I tried yesterday. They would not give me one because they said that I already had one on this vehicle.

You do have to tell them what vehicle you want it for. Let's start over.

1. DMV says you have SB-100. Maybe you do. Maybe you don't. A local DMV office says yes, but your sticker says no. That is the first thing you need to get absolutely verified. I'd say you need to talk to an SB-100 expert in Sacramento to get an absolute confirmation. Local DMV offices are far from experts and are in a hurry to finish up with you and move on. They don't do proper research and verification. If you don't clear this up, it will keep happening.

2. You need to have that same expert tell you why you need smog. They can't have it both ways. Your car is either SB-100 and does not need smog or it isn't and it does need smog. Once they say it is SB-100, then you need to get proof from them because your sticker does not say it is SB-100. And you can't prove to anyone that your car is SB-100 unless the sticker says so. Tell them your sticker does not say SB-100 and you want an SB-100 sticker so you have proof.

Also once they say it is SB-100, you need them to rescind the smog order. They must rescind the smog order if you have SB-100.

Dealing with local DMV offices will not solve this. This needs to be handled over the phone with Sacramento.

Regarding an appointment with a referee; one more thought. If you go to the referee for an inspection, you are giving him free license to hunt. He can look for anything and make anything up he wants and make your life miserable. Don't forget that your sticker says you have a '69 302 in it. You better have a '69 302 in that car (and everything else the sticker says including the type of carburetor) if you go to the referee for an inspection.

That is why I advise not visiting the BAR until you go for an SB-100 (if necessary). When you go for an SB-100, you now have a different set of rules. He is not there to do anything but give you a sticker. He can't go hunting for trouble.

If you haven't been to the referee lately, these guys have absolutely nothing to do all day long. They have very few appointments and are bored. You can light up their life by being their victim, so they can shine to their boss that they got one.

[tcrist]

Thanks Paul, that is exactly the information that I need (I think). I will call and ask for Lisa on Monday morning. Maybe she can tell me exactly what I have or don't have.

The other thing that I was wondering. If SB100 was not around when my car was first registered, would/should it have been grandfathered in? If the case is that I do actually have an SB100, but no sticker, will they just send me one or will I have to go through the SB100 process anyway? Either way, I don't really care. I just want to be legal and not have to be bothered buy this again.

Guess I should have asked the DMV on Friday what SB100 number they say they have in the system for my car.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI, This is the response that I received from Mr. Morgester.
This was a reply to an e-mail that I sent him BEFORE the DMV told me that I had a supposable SB100.

I would have to look at your registration history to tell you for sure. At his point I am guessing:

1. Assuming it was legally registered as a SPCN when it was first built (big if)
- BAR was allowing the year of the engine to determine smog
- BAR's regs were changed with the passage of the law that allowed SB100, no more engine models for smog year
- Those engines now have to pass smog based on year of build (not year of engine)

2. You registered it as a SPCN in 2005 when you purchased (good for you)
- Per your existing registration you either need to meet 2005 emission standards or have an SB100 exemption.
- Depending on the legality of the original registration you could ask for the original year of the build (early 90's) for emission testing [really wont help you]
- So this should have happened to you in 2005

3. Why the delay?
- I have no idea, you somehow fell through the cracks and DMV is finally on the ball. SB100 will solve all of your issues.

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by tcrist

Thanks Paul, that is exactly the information that I need (I think). I will call and ask for Lisa on Monday morning. Maybe she can tell me exactly what I have or don't have.

The other thing that I was wondering. If SB100 was not around when my car was first registered, would/should it have been grandfathered in?

No, there is no grandfathering, but rather a clear set of rules that were in place when your car was registered. You said your car was registered in the early '90s. At that time, SPCNS cars were registered as the year it was registered (mine is a '95 and my title said 1995; now it says 0000 because I have SB100). BUT the smog back then had two options; go by the year of registration or go by the year of the motor. Of course, no one would go by the year of registration. In your case, they found a '69 302 and put that in. So if it were to be smogged today, they would run the smog test to whatever the rules were for that motor in 1969. That is exactly what I had to do for some 13 years.

The fact that your title says 0000 does indicate SB-100. But again your sticker does not.

Originally Posted by tcrist

If the case is that I do actually have an SB100, but no sticker, will they just send me one or will I have to go through the SB100 process anyway? Either way, I don't really care. I just want to be legal and not have to be bothered buy this again.

I don't know. That is likely unchartered territory. They may even say that it doesn't matter that your sticker does not say SB-100. I don't buy it. Look at the situation your in right now.

Originally Posted by tcrist

Guess I should have asked the DMV on Friday what SB100 number they say they have in the system for my car.

Yes, good point. The buyer should have provided you with the original paper work from the SB-100, which is a document mailed to you with the sequence number on it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by tcrist

FYI, This is the response that I received from Mr. Morgester.
This was a reply to an e-mail that I sent him BEFORE the DMV told me that I had a supposable SB100.

I would have to look at your registration history to tell you for sure. At his point I am guessing:

1. Assuming it was legally registered as a SPCN when it was first built (big if)
- BAR was allowing the year of the engine to determine smog
- BAR's regs were changed with the passage of the law that allowed SB100, no more engine models for smog year
- Those engines now have to pass smog based on year of build (not year of engine)

2. You registered it as a SPCN in 2005 when you purchased (good for you)
- Per your existing registration you either need to meet 2005 emission standards or have an SB100 exemption.
- Depending on the legality of the original registration you could ask for the original year of the build (early 90's) for emission testing [really wont help you]
- So this should have happened to you in 2005

3. Why the delay?
- I have no idea, you somehow fell through the cracks and DMV is finally on the ball. SB100 will solve all of your issues.

Morgester is right on the point (that's no surprise). Someone combed through registrations and is making trouble for you. They think you don't have an SB-100, otherwise, they would not have triggered the smog requirement. That's again, why you need to talk to Sacramento.

Without SB-100, you have no chance of getting the car smogged if they force you to have a 2005 registration. I didn't follow that part of his discussion. If you bought a California car (yes?), then it should have just remained a 199x or an SB-100 car when you registered it.

But again, your title says 0000. That is not what it would say if it was registered in 2005 or in 199x without an SB-100. If it was titled without SB-100, it should say 199x. Something is amiss.

Good luck.